the chief pilot is a good friend and a D.E. I know this all may sound false but I have been very lucky. I was not qualified as SIC in my mind but he told me I could log this as training towards SIC quals. Now I know better then to ever put this in a resume or bring it up to interviewers. In no way would I want this to be questioned unless I was flight safety current in the airplane. The operation is part 91 so legally I guess since he is a current multi instructor, ATP, and DE on the 604 he could check me out but insurance would never go for it and people would never believe me
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My mind is a little foggy but to qualify as a SIC on a part 91 flight in a turbine a/c by the FAA standards, you would need:
-Some training on the systems of the a/c in use. Usually done in house.
-3 takeoffs and landings.
-A multi-engine and instrument ratings. And a commercial rating if you were going to be paid.
Would an SIC need a High Alt. signoff for flights above FL180?
Your King Air and Cl604 time is good experience, but i can see how it could get you into trouble in an interview situation.
Now, what's not even talk about insurance requirements!
SCT
-Some training on the systems of the a/c in use. Usually done in house.
-3 takeoffs and landings.
-A multi-engine and instrument ratings. And a commercial rating if you were going to be paid.
Would an SIC need a High Alt. signoff for flights above FL180?
Your King Air and Cl604 time is good experience, but i can see how it could get you into trouble in an interview situation.
Now, what's not even talk about insurance requirements!
SCT
2000flyer
EASY FLYER
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- Posts
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I would have to agree, you have been very lucky. Yours is definitely the exception, not the rule.
According to FAR 61.55..
Sec. 61.55 - Second-in-command qualifications.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may serve as a second in command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second in command unless that person holds:
(1) At least a current private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating; and
(2) An instrument rating that applies to the aircraft being flown if the flight is under IFR.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may serve as a second in command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second in command unless that person has within the previous 12 calendar months:
(1) Become familiar with the following information for the specific type aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested --
(i) Operational procedures applicable to the powerplant, equipment, and systems.
(ii) Performance specifications and limitations.
(iii) Normal, abnormal, and emergency operating procedures.
(iv) Flight manual.
(v) Placards and markings.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, performed and logged pilot time in the type of aircraft or in a flight simulator that represents the type of aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested, which includes --
(i) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;
(ii) Engine-out procedures and maneuvering with an engine out while executing the duties of pilot in command; and
Note: this is not being PIC, but executing duties OF PIC
(iii) Crew resource management training.
My questions to you are: were your 3 TO/LDG done on the first flight? Have you complied with the above criteria (OEI, CRM, etc.)?
If you flew a leg and landed, the next day flew a leg and landed, and the same on day 3, you were in no way compliant with 61.55 and therefore in violation as was the PIC/company with whom you were flying.
An aircraft that requires two pilot's, both MUST be qualified and current in order for that aircraft to fly. There are a few exceptions but in a very gray area of the FARs. I highly doubt the FAA would "sign off" on the dual given argument if it's done during a normal company flight with passengers on board!
I'm not questioning your training but I am trying to point out the slippery slope you're on.
2000Flyer
According to FAR 61.55..
Sec. 61.55 - Second-in-command qualifications.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may serve as a second in command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second in command unless that person holds:
(1) At least a current private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating; and
(2) An instrument rating that applies to the aircraft being flown if the flight is under IFR.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may serve as a second in command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second in command unless that person has within the previous 12 calendar months:
(1) Become familiar with the following information for the specific type aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested --
(i) Operational procedures applicable to the powerplant, equipment, and systems.
(ii) Performance specifications and limitations.
(iii) Normal, abnormal, and emergency operating procedures.
(iv) Flight manual.
(v) Placards and markings.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, performed and logged pilot time in the type of aircraft or in a flight simulator that represents the type of aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested, which includes --
(i) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;
(ii) Engine-out procedures and maneuvering with an engine out while executing the duties of pilot in command; and
Note: this is not being PIC, but executing duties OF PIC
(iii) Crew resource management training.
My questions to you are: were your 3 TO/LDG done on the first flight? Have you complied with the above criteria (OEI, CRM, etc.)?
If you flew a leg and landed, the next day flew a leg and landed, and the same on day 3, you were in no way compliant with 61.55 and therefore in violation as was the PIC/company with whom you were flying.
An aircraft that requires two pilot's, both MUST be qualified and current in order for that aircraft to fly. There are a few exceptions but in a very gray area of the FARs. I highly doubt the FAA would "sign off" on the dual given argument if it's done during a normal company flight with passengers on board!
I'm not questioning your training but I am trying to point out the slippery slope you're on.
2000Flyer
Last edited:
2000 thanks for the advice. I just want it to be known that I am not trying to pull a fast one. However I have learned a lot from my king air experience and plan to use that knowledge to further my career. the challenger time is just "another feather in the hat" maybe one day some one will send me to school on an airplane of that caliber
Dangerkitty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2004
- Posts
- 1,353
kilroy said:
Part 135 and Part 91 are completely different animals. You have a POI and are required to have an approved training program developed by your company and approved by the FAA. Since you must complete a Part 135 checkride it is possible to be the PIC without going to an approved school.
We are not talking about the same situation in regards to Ride High.
B-J-J Fighter
Royce Gracie in Action
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Posts
- 1,118
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