Soup Nazis at JFK

[Bavarian Chef]

I noticed a different tone the last few nights since I posted this thread, just borderline harassment.

Any chance they got the word?


atcloser -- don't they get it that we are slurping hind t1t as well? I could be making 1,000 dollars an hour and I still wouldn't want to be put at the end of the line because I couldn't understand a goomba accent talking at the speed of heat. Being stuck in an airplane for 1 plus hours in line is not worth the money (and it hurts the airline, jeopardizing what little I make anyway).

Besides, every minute sucked from my layover, is another minute my Bourbon is lonely.

 

[LearCrj]

Interesting comments guys. JFK departed 31L/KK and 4L yesterday, and the day prior. The airlines all complained about the 6 knot tailwind on 31L though. Then they did left turns off 4L for RBV departures, and the FAA, not the controllers themselves, rerouted all the RBV traffic over COATE and GAYLE. It is my understanding that one particular carrier at JFK asked for this operation, and continues to ask for this operation on a daily basis. However, all it does is delay the arrivals (as only one arrival runway can be used), and slow departures down more when HDQ reroutes all the 31L traffic to the North.

As for the other heated comments, I will refrain from making significant comment. But remember the public is being told that the controller ranks are sufficiently staffed, while in reality, controllers across the country are working 2-3 hours on busy positions without a break, which is only the tip of the iceberg. Take a visit of your local ATC facility and see whats going on behind the frequency, you'd be very surprised...

Still no excuse for the sh%*tty contoller attitudes!

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

The fact is, ORD is three times busier than JFK and they get the job done. They takeoff and land in various directions and intersections all the time/ with or without tailwinds/crosswinds. As long as it is within your limits, I'm all for moving right along instead of sitting in line at JFK. When they utilize the three runway operation, departures move right along at JFK and waits for departures significantly decrease...

 

[zkmayo]

The fact is, ORD is three times busier than JFK and they get the job done. They takeoff and land in various directions and intersections all the time/ with or without tailwinds/crosswinds. As long as it is within your limits, I'm all for moving right along instead of sitting in line at JFK. When they utilize the three runway operation, departures move right along at JFK and waits for departures significantly decrease...

Amen...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

At first blush... ORD has more runway incursions... which isn't surprising with the runway configuration... ORD controllers are just as non standard... so that really isn't the issue...is it...

If you don't like the JFK controllers then bid another domicile...

You knew you'd be working at JFK when you applied....

Why not get on or create an ATC committee and effect postive change instead of whining on FI....

 

[atcloser]

The fact is, ORD is three times busier than JFK and they get the job done. They takeoff and land in various directions and intersections all the time/ with or without tailwinds/crosswinds. As long as it is within your limits, I'm all for moving right along instead of sitting in line at JFK. When they utilize the three runway operation, departures move right along at JFK and waits for departures significantly decrease...

blue bayou, thats great that ORD can do that. interesting how there is also a ground delay or ground stop program in for ORD EVERY DAY. even without the flow control into ORD, they also have nearly 10 times more airspace than NY. you are lined up on final from the STAR, sometimes hundreds of miles away. at JFK your arrive at 19,000 feet, are dumped to 2000 feet in 40 miles of airspace and your sequence is determined within the last 10-15 miles of flight. there are no neat lines of traffic at JFK that get merged into each other, its pure bedlam until lined up on the localizer.

also, lets not forget that 3 of the busiest airports in the country are within 5 miles of each other in NY, and another 3 very busy satellite airports within that range. there is just nowhere to go and very little margin for error as far as airspace goes. NY TRACON has the most complex airspace in the country, one 10NM by 10NM block of airspace could be owned by 5 different controllers/sectors at different altitudes.

so although JFK has 4 runways, there are major airspace limitations with LGA and EWR being so close. we could launch departures of all 4 runways at a time, but once you get in the air there is nowhere to go. if you dont know what i mean, see what happens if you miss the breezy point climb one day and veer off the the west, which is an hourly occurence at JFK. better have the TCAS on, as your just wandered into LGA's final head-on at the same alititude.

i'd be happy to show anyone who doesnt believe me that NY airspace is congested and complex, and there really is nowhere to go with departures of 3-4 runways at a time.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2007-3-17-Bad-Day-At-JFKGround.mp3

IOW no has taken the controller up on the offer to "come up here".....

 

[LR25]

THe question is, are they bad controllers, or good controllers?

Maybe an average controller couldnt do their job, or maybe vise versa.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

You want my own personal opinion? Here it is. Yes that airspace is congested, you are correct. But with all the technology to build new airports and runways out there-- nothing has changed with the EWR/LGA/JFK as far as runway configurations go in oh, about 50 years... Yet population and air travel has exponentionally increased in the NYC area. ORD has a plan that is currently in progress to build 6 new parallel runways and a new West Side air terminal. There are no plans to increase or reconfigure any of NYC's airports in the near or forseable future. There you have it, enjoy the Q-10 ride and welcome to NYC...

 

[atcloser]

You want my own personal opinion? Here it is. Yes that airspace is congested, you are correct. But with all the technology to build new airports and runways out there-- nothing has changed with the EWR/LGA/JFK as far as runway configurations go in oh, about 50 years... Yet population and air travel has exponentionally increased in the NYC area. ORD has a plan that is currently in progress to build 6 new parallel runways and a new West Side air terminal. There are no plans to increase or reconfigure any of NYC's airports in the near or forseable future. There you have it, enjoy the Q-10 ride and welcome to NYC...

You are 110% correct. And I dont ever see that changing unfortunately.

Watch this video that aired on CBS morning news today about the air traffic control system in NY:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/12/earlyshow/living/travel/main2917697.shtml

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You want my own personal opinion? Here it is. Yes that airspace is congested, you are correct. But with all the technology to build new airports and runways out there-- nothing has changed with the EWR/LGA/JFK as far as runway configurations go in oh, about 50 years... Yet population and air travel has exponentionally increased in the NYC area. ORD has a plan that is currently in progress to build 6 new parallel runways and a new West Side air terminal. There are no plans to increase or reconfigure any of NYC's airports in the near or forseable future. There you have it, enjoy the Q-10 ride and welcome to NYC...

Thanks for the geography lesson. ORD has room to expand. NYC area doesn't.

What solutions do you have to offer? On June 6th the issue in part was addressed to the subcommittee on aviation, committee on transportation and infrastructue, House of Reps..

 

[Tug Driver]

http://www.natca.org/mediacenter/JFK.msp

natca has tips on how to avoid delays this summer at JFK...

http://www.natca.org/mediacenter/press-release-detail.aspx?id=429

i'm glad I flunked out of atc school...:bawling:

 

[Dizel8]

I think the NY attitude has more to do with stress and the working conditions. Busy place, with airspace a mess and certainly at a premium.

I may be the odd man out, but considering all the issues, I think they do a heck of a job.

 

[elag777]

I think the NY attitude has more to do with stress and the working conditions. Busy place, with airspace a mess and certainly at a premium.

I may be the odd man out, but considering all the issues, I think they do a heck of a job.

I think you are high! :nuts:

 

[Dizel8]

I think you are high! :nuts:

Nahh, I can make it down from here, watch this

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Thanks for the geography lesson. ORD has room to expand. NYC area doesn't.

What solutions do you have to offer? On June 6th the issue in part was addressed to the subcommittee on aviation, committee on transportation and infrastructue, House of Reps..

Actually, ORD doesn't have that much room to expand. They're reconfiguring for 6 parallel runways in nearly the space that exists. The fun part is going to be the next 5-10 years of NOTAMS and runway closures! Now, even though it's sinking, the Japanese built an entire airport out in the middle of the ocean with high-speed rail and a new highway to it. Space is not the problem. Money is. If the Federal government would actually release some of the funds earmarked for airport improvements instead of using it to offset the debt, we might really have an outstanding airports system that everyone could be proud of...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually, ORD doesn't have that much room to expand. They're reconfiguring for 6 parallel runways in nearly the space that exists. The fun part is going to be the next 5-10 years of NOTAMS and runway closures! Now, even though it's sinking, the Japanese built an entire airport out in the middle of the ocean with high-speed rail and a new highway to it.

Meigs! Damn that Honrable Daley!!! dang politicans....

Space is not the problem. Money is. If the Federal government would actually release some of the funds earmarked for airport improvements instead of using it to offset the debt, we might really have an outstanding airports system that everyone could be proud of...

Federal go'vt? Like I said.. on June 6th Air Line Pilots addressed congress...