Soup Nazis at JFK

[Bavarian Chef]

When are they gonna fire those 2-3 a$$holes that work JFK ground/clearance/tower? I wouldn't pi$$ on those dudes if they were on fire.

What a bunch of pr1cks. I have heard so much ranting and raving, telling dudes they are gonna be put at the end of the line, etc etc -- totally unprofessional and completely uncalled for. The relationship is so adversial, yet unprovoked by the pilots. I have been barked at twice in the last few days for asking a question, I have heard others dressed down as well.

WHEN THE F DID THEY START THINKING THEY WOULD EVEN HAVE A JOB WITHOUT US? Or better yet, that they can talk to pilots as if they were children. Aren't we all on the same team?

JFK is a total mess. And the FAA can kiss my a$$.

rant off

 

[TAWS]

They like to blame the ramp for the mess!

 

[roadrunnerblue]

When are they gonna fire those 2-3 a$$holes that work JFK ground/clearance/tower? I wouldn't pi$$ on those dudes if they were on fire.

What a bunch of pr1cks. I have heard so much ranting and raving, telling dudes they are gonna be put at the end of the line, etc etc -- totally unprofessional and completely uncalled for. The relationship is so adversial, yet unprovoked by the pilots. I have been barked at twice in the last few days for asking a question, I have heard others dressed down as well.

WHEN THE F DID THEY START THINKING THEY WOULD EVEN HAVE A JOB WITHOUT US? Or better yet, that they can talk to pilots as if they were children. Aren't we all on the same team?

JFK is a total mess. And the FAA can kiss my a$$.

rant off

Totally agree! JFK is staffed by the rudest and most unprofessional a$$hole controllers you can imagine! But also they are a reflection of the mentality overall in that garbage can city.

 

[MrSky]

Hey It's New York.... Just what do you expect! A lot of the people around Manhattan are rude!

 

[AAflyer]

When are they gonna fire those 2-3 a$$holes that work JFK ground/clearance/tower? I wouldn't pi$$ on those dudes if they were on fire.

What a bunch of pr1cks. I have heard so much ranting and raving, telling dudes they are gonna be put at the end of the line, etc etc -- totally unprofessional and completely uncalled for. The relationship is so adversial, yet unprovoked by the pilots. I have been barked at twice in the last few days for asking a question, I have heard others dressed down as well.

WHEN THE F DID THEY START THINKING THEY WOULD EVEN HAVE A JOB WITHOUT US? Or better yet, that they can talk to pilots as if they were children. Aren't we all on the same team?

JFK is a total mess. And the FAA can kiss my a$$.

rant off

Oh, good, I thought you were talking about us .

Keep going!!!!!! I agree with everything you are saying!!!!

AA

 

[skypine69]

real simple solution...
politly ask the controller for the phone number to the facility, and ask him to mark the tape. then call and ask the sup to review the tape and go from there. I have talked to controllers on the phone many times and in general they are polite and accomodating.
Just as they have the right to gove out a phone number, we have the right (and duty) to ask for the phone number if we have a concern.

 

[jetpig32]

I try to think or the most sarcastic/rude comment to fire right back at them. They seem to enjoy this.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Real simple solution: fire them.

 

[zkmayo]

JFK is a freakin joke. They are rude and inconsiderate/unprofessional bc they are rationalizing their incompetence. I have never been able to figure out why they cant routinely land 4R, and takeoff on 31L/KK and 4L. Or depart 13R & 13L while landing 13L. Yeah i know: the winds, LGA, overhead flow. BS, they can do it, they are JUST LAZY and daily making a defacto work action. We could prob cut jet fuel consumption in the US by 0.5%/day(alot of gas btw) by operating that airport on simul/int runways as outlined above.

No, im not a ATCer, and I havent played one on tv; but what goes on in JFK everyday by that tower is utter incompetence and completely unacceptable.

 

[shearedshaft]

My favorite when an Air Zimbabwe crew asked JFK ground to "please repeat", the ground guy said, "I told you ONCE!" and that was it. What a prick.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I think they're just upset because the "Sopranos" is coming to an end... Really, for New Yorkers, these ATC guys are actually sweethearts. Just think of how entertaining it would be if they were allowed to use their normal language>> it wouldn't be something you'd want your kids to hear.

And next time your passengers don't uderstand the mess out there in the "conga" line, just put the PA up to the speaker and let them hear the conversations on ground/clearance.

 

[PHXFLYR]

The controller would be whistling out the other side of his a$$ if his refusal to repeat the instruction to Air Zimbabwe led to a runway incursion. That kind of attitude from the controllers just makes operating safely in a tough enviroment alot more challenging to deal with. And for what reason?


PHXFLYR

 

[jetpig32]

good flight, great night

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

"I told you ONCE"


OK... we sit until you tell us twice.

 

[brainhurts]

They are always respectful to me. That is because I play the theme to the "Godfather" in the background, and I talk like Don Corleone.

 

[Rough67]

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2007-3-17-Bad-Day-At-JFKGround.mp3

 

[atcloser]

JFK is a freakin joke. They are rude and inconsiderate/unprofessional bc they are rationalizing their incompetence. I have never been able to figure out why they cant routinely land 4R, and takeoff on 31L/KK and 4L. Or depart 13R & 13L while landing 13L. Yeah i know: the winds, LGA, overhead flow. BS, they can do it, they are JUST LAZY and daily making a defacto work action. We could prob cut jet fuel consumption in the US by 0.5%/day(alot of gas btw) by operating that airport on simul/int runways as outlined above.

No, im not a ATCer, and I havent played one on tv; but what goes on in JFK everyday by that tower is utter incompetence and completely unacceptable.

Interesting comments guys. JFK departed 31L/KK and 4L yesterday, and the day prior. The airlines all complained about the 6 knot tailwind on 31L though. Then they did left turns off 4L for RBV departures, and the FAA, not the controllers themselves, rerouted all the RBV traffic over COATE and GAYLE. It is my understanding that one particular carrier at JFK asked for this operation, and continues to ask for this operation on a daily basis. However, all it does is delay the arrivals (as only one arrival runway can be used), and slow departures down more when HDQ reroutes all the 31L traffic to the North.

As for the other heated comments, I will refrain from making significant comment. But remember the public is being told that the controller ranks are sufficiently staffed, while in reality, controllers across the country are working 2-3 hours on busy positions without a break, which is only the tip of the iceberg. Take a visit of your local ATC facility and see whats going on behind the frequency, you'd be very surprised...

 

[Richard Gozinya]

.... the public is being told that the controller ranks are sufficiently staffed, while in reality, controllers across the country are working 2-3 hours on busy positions without a break, which is only the tip of the iceberg.......

Imagine how bad it would be if they had massive furloughs, 50% paycuts, contracts being thrown out, not to mention the pensions dissapearing. Boy, working for the government an extra 2-3 hours a day is a huge reason to be in a constant menstation!

Dick

 

[Bjammin]

I'm sure being a controller is EXTREAMLY hard and with the current work climate I'm sure it's extreamly frustrating, however there is no excuse for unprofessionalism on the radio like JFK ground above. It is UNSAFE to use non-standard radio phraseology in such a busy environment. He was causing people to double mike and creating confusion. This goes way beyond saying "Out of 5/4/3" or "Have a good one".
It needs to be addressed or there will be another runway incident.

 

[BoilerUP]

Heard a ground controller at LGA call somebody a smartass a few months back.

Welcome'ta New York, no go f**k ya'self!

 

[zkmayo]

Interesting comments guys. JFK departed 31L/KK and 4L yesterday, and the day prior. The airlines all complained about the 6 knot tailwind on 31L though. Then they did left turns off 4L for RBV departures, and the FAA, not the controllers themselves, rerouted all the RBV traffic over COATE and GAYLE. It is my understanding that one particular carrier at JFK asked for this operation, and continues to ask for this operation on a daily basis. However, all it does is delay the arrivals (as only one arrival runway can be used), and slow departures down more when HDQ reroutes all the 31L traffic to the North.

As for the other heated comments, I will refrain from making significant comment. But remember the public is being told that the controller ranks are sufficiently staffed, while in reality, controllers across the country are working 2-3 hours on busy positions without a break, which is only the tip of the iceberg. Take a visit of your local ATC facility and see whats going on behind the frequency, you'd be very surprised...

The airlines and the crews that cannot accept the 6 kt tailwind for 31L/KK should then be place in the 4L congo line then. There is no reason, none, why 31L, a 14000ft+ runway should be turned into a taxiway like it was last night when the winds clearly favor a 2 runway departure and 1 runway arrival set up.

I empathize with everyone's issues in this industry today, but JFK is not managed properly.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Interesting comments guys. JFK departed 31L/KK and 4L yesterday, and the day prior. The airlines all complained about the 6 knot tailwind on 31L though. Then they did left turns off 4L for RBV departures, and the FAA, not the controllers themselves, rerouted all the RBV traffic over COATE and GAYLE. It is my understanding that one particular carrier at JFK asked for this operation, and continues to ask for this operation on a daily basis. However, all it does is delay the arrivals (as only one arrival runway can be used), and slow departures down more when HDQ reroutes all the 31L traffic to the North.

As for the other heated comments, I will refrain from making significant comment. But remember the public is being told that the controller ranks are sufficiently staffed, while in reality, controllers across the country are working 2-3 hours on busy positions without a break, which is only the tip of the iceberg. Take a visit of your local ATC facility and see whats going on behind the frequency, you'd be very surprised...

There are two issues here: the utilization of jfk and the manners of jfk controllers.

To suggest that anyone in this business should get a pass for common decency and professionalism because they are overworked/tired/sleepy/etc is folly.

As for the number of aircraft flying into and out of jfk each nite -- the airlines, the PANYNJ, the FAA ... they all bear responsibility.

Day 4 of a five day from hell due to jfk. Should I expect it again tonite?

 

[Frap]

Imagine how bad it would be if they had massive furloughs, 50% paycuts, contracts being thrown out, not to mention the pensions dissapearing. Boy, working for the government an extra 2-3 hours a day is a huge reason to be in a constant menstation!

Dick

Wonder what they were like back in Febary?

 

[SNOWBUM]

As for the other heated comments, I will refrain from making significant comment. But remember the public is being told that the controller ranks are sufficiently staffed, while in reality, controllers across the country are working 2-3 hours on busy positions without a break, which is only the tip of the iceberg. Take a visit of your local ATC facility and see whats going on behind the frequency, you'd be very surprised...

and you can thank our neww COO for that.

 

[atcloser]

The airlines and the crews that cannot accept the 6 kt tailwind for 31L/KK should then be place in the 4L congo line then. There is no reason, none, why 31L, a 14000ft+ runway should be turned into a taxiway like it was last night when the winds clearly favor a 2 runway departure and 1 runway arrival set up.

I empathize with everyone's issues in this industry today, but JFK is not managed properly.

Look, whatever the controllers situation with their employer is should not be the reason for this behavior. I'm just trying to paint a picture as to what is going on behind the scenes. Whether it affected the few controllers who you all have issues with is not known, its just something that needs to be included in the picture. Its not an extra 2-3 hours a day, its an extra 2 hours every day, 6 days a week. You had vacation today? Oh well, cancelled. You are sick? Come in anyway. I dont intend this to be an excuse, again I just want to let you all know whats happening on this side of the fence.

We hear pilots all the time complaining about this and that on the frequency. I know that you have taken pay cuts, I know you get treated like #$# too, and I try to chaulk it up to that. I can tell you that there are many controllers out there who are passionate about their work and will do whatever they can to help you as a pilot and the system in general. The actions of a few should not be used to determine the entire population of controllers in the FAA or at a particular facility.

Now as Bavarian Chef said, there are two issues here. The second one concerns utilization of the airport. Being that I dont work at the tower I cant really comment on the runway configurations. I agree that something needs to be done to get the conga line out, but it is way way way outside my power and control to do anything about it. The airlines, the FAA, and the PANY need to figure that one out, and soon.

Zkmayo, the conditions did not favor a 2 runway departure last night. Only a very few aircraft accepted 31L for departure. 4R cant be used because of steady arrivals. 13R is out of the question for obvious reasons. Now having said that, maybe 22L/R and 31LKK would have worked, but thats a call both the airlines, and FAA management need to make.

In sum, JFk is experiencing growing pains. Unfortunately the ATC system is not up to speed with these pains in my personal opinion. Staffing only exacerbates the problem, and sheer volume and changing weather situations affect the overall efficiency of the operations. To solely blame it on the controllers is not only wrong but is ludicrous. Like I said, in my opinion, most of us do our very best every day to get you in the air and then back on the ground.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Wonder what they were like back in Febary?

Constant menstat...., ah menscrat....menstcrapin...............ah, ah, ah, .................Why is she pissed AT ME??????????

Dick

 

[Frap]

Now that's funny...

 

[Vastly Underemp]

And then there is the controller at LGA that constantly says, "possision an hode."

 

[G4G5]

The funniest NY Controller argument I ever heard was at LGA.

It was a saturday and 4/22 was close for maint. Operations was on 31 for t/o and ldg., it was getting busy, the controller was getting stressed and this old DAL 767 capt felt the need to mess with him. When he pulls out of the DAL ramp he pulls too far and blocks the inner taxi way.

LGA- DAL 123 I told you to hold short of the inner
DAL-We didn't copy that, you were yelling at us too fast.
LGA-DAL 123, left on the outter, left on Romeo, hold for the AA MD80 and then join the inner, you are number 7 .

Nothing happens

LGA- I said, and he repeats the entire sequence again

Nothing happens

LGA - I said, and he repeats for a third time, do you copy?

DAL 123 - You can say it slow or you can say it again.

The radio gets very quiet for a few seconds

LGA - DAL 123 Left on the outter taxi and hold short of rwy 4 (the other side of the airport holding short of the closed rwy) I am chosing to say it good by, you can do it now oor you can say good by to your ticket, slow enough for Y'all.

I pissed myself

The guy had to taxi by all of the departing aircraft waiting as he taxied to left field. I never knew how long they made him wait. When we departed, he was still holding short of 4

 

[Wesb737fo]

I pissed myself

The guy had to taxi by all of the departing aircraft waiting as he taxied to left field. I never knew how long they made him wait. When we departed, he was still holding short of 4

Yeah....at nearly $ 3/minute (assuming he's paid block or better) I'm sure that old Delta CA was crying all the way to the bank.

I agree with you guys, some NYC controllers have a short fuse and are difficult to follow at times. I love it when you get the "rapid fire detailed instructions" immediately followed by "Break" and more rapid fire speaking for the next aircraft... oh well... so you just roll with it and do the best you can.