Sorry, I have to vent about how muchTSA $uxx

[N1FuelFlow]

I Hate Tsa Period!!!!

 

[kevdog]

Oh and get this, my company buys us tickets on passenger carriers to take us where they want us, and because it is a one way ticket purchased on short notice I am always selected for additional screening, every single time!! But I if you walk in planning to jumpseat, you pass right through with no additional screening whatsoever. Ahhh the wisdom of the TSA, don't you love it

Same thing happens to me all the time, but I realized using a frequent flyer card on some airlines waives this...Southwest for example. Another strange
phenomenon about security, last time I checked any terrorist can access the world wide web and sign up for one.

You would think jumpseaters would be checked more carefully than a ticketed passenger. My non TSA company ID gets me through security everywhere without showing another form of ID, but if my company is commercialing me somewhere, TSA usually finds it strange that I as a crewmember have a ticket and pull out the latex gloves.

 

[acaTerry]

Here's the law in case anyone is curious.




There have been instances (albeit as rare as 9/11) of flight crew members or other airline employees bypassing security and causing trouble or worse (12/07/1987, PSA Flight 1771).

"

He was no longer an employee.

 

[Captain X]

He was no longer an employee.

The point was that an airline credential got him around security. His current state of employ was not the point.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I was giong through security (i guess thats what they call it) with a guy i knew that was a ramper. They asked to search his bag which was a military type bag. All the sudden his face turns white. They pull out a plastic fork and knife, tell him he can't take them through, but he could go to the food court and get another (???) Then they pull out a bolt and a magazine for an M-16 rifle. They set the parts down look through the rest, put the parts bag in and tell him to have a nice day. I asked him if those parts were what i had thought and he explains to me he's in the reserves and just got back from some training the day before and forgot he had that still in his bag. He thought he was going to be arrested on the spot. But it was ok, though he had to walk to the food court to get another plastic fork and knife.

 

[T-prop]

But what is the point of screening a pilot, if he is operating the flight? It becomes a silly, circular argument.

Q:Why are you screening me?
A:Becuase we don't want anyone to take over the airplane!
Q: But since I am flying the airplane and hence in control, what good will it do?
A: Blank stare!

Let me take this a bit further, I cannot carry a scredriver, but I could become a FFDO and carry a gun. I cannot have a penknife, but the FAA gives me a crashaxe.

Either we, as the pilots of the airplanes, are trusted individuals or we are not. If it is the former, then screening us is a joke and if it the latter, then we need to shut down the air traffic system.

Why they do not run all air crews through the same back ground security screening as the FFDO and then let us bypass security is beyond me.

I have an idea!! The TSA should let anyone dressed as a pilot with an ID badge bypass security and carry what ever they want, the catch is just don't tell the terrorists!! It'll work great!!

 

[SlapShot]

What is the point of having the company we work for go through the 10 year background check if we have to go through the same security as every other passenger?

 

[T-prop]

You don't get it do ya?!?
You go through a background check so Mr. terrorist can't get a pilot job and have a very easy time at taking over an airplane and slamming it and its contents into another building.

 

[Smoothflyin]

When I saw the TSA sucks...I thought it was a Trans States thread...lol

 

[pipejockey]

I have an idea!! The TSA should let anyone dressed as a pilot with an ID badge bypass security and carry what ever they want, the catch is just don't tell the terrorists!! It'll work great!!

I understand what you're saying, but the bottom line is...THE SYSTEM SUX!!! My biggest issue is being "selected" for additional screening just because I have a one-way ticket. So here I am in full pilot Uniform getting mugged while all the raggedy looking passengers who appear to have just crawled out of a dumpster stare at me with accusatory looks.

There is technology that exists to do away with all this. There needs to be an ID that cannot be duplicated that contains some sort of fingerprint, or optical scanning technology. Don't ask me how but I know it is very feasible. This would even allow cockpit jumpseats to be opened up for offline pilots, which would cause far fewer commuting pilots from being left behind in this day and age of extremely high load factors.

 

[T-prop]

I agree that they are a pain in the ass, personally I can't wait until they streamline the system and integrate the bomb sniffing machine and X-ray machine. If that is accomplished TSA will have to let go half of their workers. However, I don't think that anyone, even us, should get any special treatment simply because it creates a loophole, a weak link in the system.

Uniforms can be bought and ID's forged. You've seen how closely they look at our badges. White construction paper with CREW and a stick figure on it would fool most of the agents. We know we are pilots and not terrorists, they can't afford to make that assumption if someone looks talks and acts like a pilot. Fingerprint scanning or eye scanning would be fantastic for us I hope that something like that becomes availabe.

The CASS system is already in place for off-line jumpseaters. Only a few large companies have it (United, NWA, Eagle, American, UPS, FedEx, etc.) It's up to the ALPA reps to get it in place at their company.

 

[Filkster]

Personally, I disagree with the practice of ANYONE bypassing screening, but that's just me. There have been instances (albeit as rare as 9/11) of flight crew members or other airline employees bypassing security and causing trouble or worse (12/07/1987, PSA Flight 1771).

The employee in question was a USAir ramper (post merger) that was recently fired and refused to return his ID. He used his ID to get access to the aircraft. This has NOT been fixed even after 911. 90% of the threat to our aircraft do NOT involve pax or crew.

 

[crashpad]

My official ID has a Star Trek symbol I decalled on cause I thinks it's cool. Been doing this about tens years and do you think in all that time one security or airline employee ever caught on (with the exception of one pilot I was JSing on)?
Oh, don't even think of lecturing me on the legalities since I've forgotten more than most of you will ever know...uh, you know what I mean.

 

[jetexas]

We had to rush around the other morning to get the kick-off flight out on time. They kept our FA's bag for about 10 minutes, running it through the x-ray numerous times. They said she had a pocket knife in there. She denied it. They then said it was hidden in the lining. No pocketknife was found, however some lipstick was.
Meanwhile, I'm standing there watching all this inside security with a stainless steel dinner fork in my little travel cooler.
It still seems nuts to me that, 3 1/2 years after 9/11, some kind of universal flightcrew ID has not been created so that we can bypass security

 

[SKYMASTER]

I agree with the last few remarks. Friendly screeners would make our jobs more pleasant, but the issue here is to improve our security in a proactive manner. Relatively speaking, screening has only changed a little since 911. All airline employees at every airport should either be swiping an ID card into an electronic reader, scanning their fingerprint, or scanning their optical. This would control our airline operations security much better than human screening. There are already ID card readers practically at every airport. Politics have gotten in the way of letting us move forward.

I hope all airline employees write at least one letter to their senator. Nothing will change unless it gets A: media attention or B: pressure in Washington D.C.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

Fingerprint scanning or eye scanning would be fantastic for us I hope that something like that becomes availabe.

QUOTE]

security has a fingure print scanner whne you enter DIA throught the employee side. if they can do it there, why not everywhere.

 

[proud_dude]

Check this out... crazy!

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/slideshow/news/4402056/detail.html

 

[Bob Runday]

Here's the law in case anyone is curious.

§ 1540.107 Submission to screening and inspection.
No individual may enter a sterile area or board an aircraft without submitting to the screening and inspection of his or her person and accessible property in accordance with the procedures being applied to control access to that area or aircraft under this subchapter.
[67 FR 41639, June 19, 2002]

Our airline has multiple cities as well where we simply go thru ops.

Personally, I disagree with the practice of ANYONE bypassing screening, but that's just me. There have been instances (albeit as rare as 9/11) of flight crew members or other airline employees bypassing security and causing trouble or worse (12/07/1987, PSA Flight 1771).

That flight in fact, is the one that spurred the "requirement" for all crew members and employees to be screened. And here, almost 20 years later, we allow complacency once again and defend the very attitude when someone challenges it.

No wonder the FAMs say we've "already forgotten all we've learned from 9/11."

What about airline employees at the out-stations? At the smaller cities the ticket agents are the rampers and are able to pass back and forth into the sterile area and aircraft dozens of times during the day without ANY screening.

 

[jetalc]

Last time I checked, it wasn't a professional requirement to allow your rights to be violated by ignorant and petty civil servants who should be thrilled that they have jobs that pay better that 10 bucks an hour. The TSA started out very well and has deteriorated into a group of ill motivated slackers. The solution to the problems is the "Phone booth" that looks for nitrates. That gadget does the work of 10 screeners and is alot nicer. I've seen them at work in PVD.

Took the words right out of my mouth. What is unprofessional about calling BS on a ridiculous situation that has cost billions of dollars, simply to give passengers the "impression" of increased security? It's high time TSA screeners stopped pulling attitude and started being effective. No, I'm not going to stop MY "b!tching" and "deal with it."

 

[91100 100 set]

A few years back, late '01 or early '02, my crew and I were reporting for an afternoon showtime in Erie. Depending on who you spoke to, USAirways at Erie was a station that sometimes made you go through security and sometimes not. But for the most part, I seem to remember that we did indeed have to go through to get to the plane. But the captain seemed to think not, and the ops agent let us through by the ticket counter. No sweat, no problems, I'll go with the flow. We are all boarded up, engines running, ready to go. I call ground to taxi, and they respond with something like, "we just got a call from the TSA, and you need to return to the gate". At the same time, the gate agent runs out to the ramp agent like she's on fire, and the ramper starts indicating to shut 'em down. So we set the brake and call ops. Turns out the TSA is pissed that we bypassed security. They need us to deplane our people, get off the plane, with all our stuff, go through security, AND they also need to now search the plane. Okay, whatever, the delay will be coded to TSA (again, go with the flow). After a few exchanges on the radio, the station informs us that we're NOW okay, so long as the agent verified the ID of the crew and indicated such with initials on the flight release.

Whatever.

 

[91100 100 set]

We had to rush around the other morning to get the kick-off flight out on time. They kept our FA's bag for about 10 minutes, running it through the x-ray numerous times. They said she had a pocket knife in there. She denied it. They then said it was hidden in the lining. No pocketknife was found, however some lipstick was.

Don't ever rush around to get a flight out on time if someone else (TSA, hotel van, etc) is the reason you are running late. Rushing around is the last reason you want to screw something up. If it goes out late, so be it.

 

[Roger Murdoch]

Yes, the TSA sucks. I find it amazing that they give extra security to stand by pax. Right, like some terrorist is just hoping he will make the the cut to get on. " Sorry Osama, I couldn't make this flight. Some rev people came running in at the last minute. I guess I'll try tomorrow to blow up the flight. The agent said the loads look good."

Also, a friend told me that at the TGIF in MSP that they gave him a real steak knife. That's great and all except that it's beyond security. I'm sure if someone tried to get through security with a steak knife they would probably be answering questions with their hands cuffed. The problem is inconsistincy, across the board. I'm sorry, no matter what anyone does they cannot make everything aboslutely safe.

 

[rstev1955]

Flight crews whose names are on a company dispatch release, verified by operations personnel, and who can get to the aircraft by going through company operations are NOT required to go through security. A lot of smaller airports operate in this manner, as do almost all cargo operations. TSA screening is only a small part of airport security. We as flight crews are even part of the system as we are required to challenge anyone inside a secured area that is not properly cleared to be there.

Will this allow a terrorist to pose as an aircrew and get to the aircraft? No way. Not unless they can somehow show up as a complete crew who all have the same names as on the dispatch release and who all have proper company IDs (and oh by the way they would have had to get rid of the real crew somehow).

If you cant get to the aircraft by going through operations, or if you cant get to operations without going through security, then yes you have to go through security just like everyone else. Suck it up, and buy screener-friendly shoes and belts.

 

[ERJ-140]

What about airline employees at the out-stations? At the smaller cities the ticket agents are the rampers and are able to pass back and forth into the sterile area and aircraft dozens of times during the day without ANY screening.

There is more to the rule than meets the eye. No person may enter a PUBLIC ACCESS STERILE area without submitting to screening. It is legal to use a NON-PUBLIC access to a sterile area and bypass screening.

 

[ackattacker]

What is the point of screening a pilot? (or FA, or ramper, etc, etc....)

Yes, as an FFDO you could carry a gun but what if your fellow pilot was not an FFDO but had just learned that his wife was leaving him (or whatever) and decided that going out in a blaze of infamy would be the way to show her?

So he bypasses security in MLU (b/c he can) with his 9mm (or whatever) that he bought on the layover at Boudreaux's Cash and Pawn which he later kills you with before you ever even knew what hit you (b/c he was planning it and had prepared for it) the flies the airplane into (insert whatever here).

Oh, I totally hear ya' on the assininity(?) of it all, with "weapons" in the flight deck already and the fact that we are in "control," but I guess it's just the point of there is a regulation on the books and it gets broken every day.

And just as a point, an FFDO is not authorized to bypass security unless he is actively transporting his weapon. To do so is considered abuse of credentials and violation of federal law.

I disagree that this is the scenario that TSA is trying to prevent. Witness the fact that they do allow pilots to bypass security routinely either with a local SIDA badge or through company operations... I think the TSA bigwigs are really more worried about terrorists bypassing security by impersonating a pilot. Local TSA despots may have a different interpretation of course. Presumably an electronic SIDA badge is difficult to counterfeit and company operations is probably supposed to verify that you are an assigned flight crewmember.

A secure, universal electronic SIDA badge would be a major improvement and remove the necessity to clear TSA at outstations. It would even be technically possible to link the badge electronically to a company operations database so that it could verify instantly whether you were showing up for an assigned flight or not.

 

[BlackPilot628]

I agree with just about everything everyone is saying.
TSA pisses me off all the time.
We (Corpex) currently fly to some little dinky towns and we don't go through security anywhere except STL,ATL and BNA.
The last time a had a problem was in STL.
Were I found out that pilots (or Crew members) were NOT exempted for additional screening. I went through the flow of things and then called TSA the next day. Talked to a Supv in DCA where she informed me that we are not exempt. They can pull us like they can pull anyone else.

Our (the pilot) hands are tied. The people that go through a better background check than the president and we get NO LOVE from TSA=Thousands Standing around!

 

[Rook]

I agree with just about everything everyone is saying.
TSA pisses me off all the time.
We (Corpex) currently fly to some little dinky towns and we don't go through security anywhere except STL,ATL and BNA.
The last time a had a problem was in STL.
Were I found out that pilots (or Crew members) were NOT exempted for additional screening. I went through the flow of things and then called TSA the next day. Talked to a Supv in DCA where she informed me that we are not exempt. They can pull us like they can pull anyone else.

Our (the pilot) hands are tied. The people that go through a better background check than the president and we get NO LOVE from TSA=Thousands Standing around!

TSA= Thousands Smoking Alot

Congrats on the CHQ class. You Corpex guys are top-notch and very friendly

Rook

 

[JD2003]

Here is good one for you. In DFW, beyond the steril area, they post one of the little "tax dollar suckling" retards at each entrance to each terminal in a little podium like apparatus with a chair.

Why the entrance to another terminal (within) the steril area needs to be guarded by one of these retards is beyond me, but it is good to see my tax dollars pay for such idiocy and laziness.

I start noticing the same little chubby TSA chick sitting there every day with her head buried in her Vogue magazine, aloof and unaware of anything that is going on around her.

You could be trucking a nuclear implosion device right by her and she wouldn't notice a darn thing.

TSA NEEDS TO GO BYE BYE. How could our government be so stupid. And pay these salaries to people who aren't worth it!

I wanna go throw up now!

Rant over