Something I've Noticed

[B1900FO]

Hey all!

I think many of us have been very attentive to this board in the last week due to Comair's accident in Lexington. It's great to see that 98% of the worlds pilot group actually care about our fellow brothers.

I have noticed one thing. Nobody has bashed the pilot group at Comair? This says so much for Comair's reputation as a regional. They are not known as a regional with low timers who can barely fly an airplane. The are known as one of the best!

With that being said, had this been Pinnacle, Gulfstream, or any of the others who hire guys with low time, this board would be full of nothing but total bashing of the crew because the F.O. had 300 hours or something to that nature.

We just ended the safest period in aviation history with a very experienced crew. Look at that again, we just ended the SAFEST period in aviation history. This is the same period where PFT's became prevalent and 300 hr pilots were being hired at airlines.

Point in case. In many cases there is nothing wrong with low time pilots. We all know that the airlines breed all kinds of pilots. There are good ones and certainly bad ones. Sometimes the bad ones have 20,000 hours and some of the good ones only have 2000. It's the nature of the beast.

Safety is the key and that is why we make it through each day without incident or accident. We're all safe, because not only do we not want others to die, but we don't want to die either.

Comair, my hat is off to you. You're a great regional! Keep moving along. With that being said, every regional has potential to be great! Its not the pilot group, its the management, so lets quit blaming it on each other and go about our jobs safely.

So long!

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Fair enough. But I don't EVER want to hear some regional FO complaining that they've been with their regional for 1.5 years, have 2500 hours and STILL haven't upgraded yet...

Cheers.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I don't think you can look at this and say "see, low-timers don't make mistakes"

This just proves that ANYONE can make a mistake. This accident illustrates we need even MORE experience than we think.

"Generally" More experience =safer, more competent pilots. You will NEVER CHANGE that fact no matter how many 600 hour flight instructors whine about being just as competent as a 3000 hour single pilot cargo guy.

How did we arrive at a point of being so arrogant to think a 500 hour pilot belongs in a high-performance airplane JUST AS MUCH as a 3000+ hour experienced pilot.

Yeah, I'm just jealous, thats it.. But I BET the average low timer will look back when he has 3000+ hours and say "man, I really didn't have a clue back then"

 

[Flyprdu]

This accident was a result of complacency. Low time or high time, doesn't matter. We can all fall victim.

 

[HalinTexas]

There's no reason to have a pilot in the cockpit of a Part 121 carrier that does NOT have an ATP. This is a more reasonable weed-out than a college degree, but it's still a requirement at many carriers.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

"Generally" More experience =safer, more competent pilots.

I'm glad you said "generally" because I just had a captain with 40 years of piloting do his best to bust up the aircraft this afternoon in a thunderstorm when as per my suggestion, we could have deviated 20 miles north west and had a clear ride the entire route of flight. (You could see beautiful clear sky the whole way) Perhaps if I hadn't suggested it, he would have decided that was the correct route as well! Generally the more experience, the better the decision making though.

 

[Blucher]

"We just ended the safest period in aviation history with a very experienced crew. Look at that again, we just ended the SAFEST period in aviation history."-B1900FO

I take issue with this statement. Not just because it's what the "news" keeps saying, but because it's inaccurate. Frankly, I would have thought a 1900 driver would be even more up to date on this fact than most (hint-think NC). Although, I believe there are some 737 guys who could tell you about one that went down in Greece (I believe), that also killed everyone aboard. Perhaps we could also talk about the one in the former Soviet Union (don't remember which state).
My condolences to all those effected by all of these accidents.

-Blucher

 

[737 Pylt]

There's no reason to have a pilot in the cockpit of a Part 121 carrier that does NOT have an ATP. This is a more reasonable weed-out than a college degree, but it's still a requirement at many carriers.

Hal:
Well said! I also agree with that one. The college degree the old "legacy" carriers were looking for was nothing more than a commitment! At least with an ATP, FAA minimums have to be met!
737

 

[Flightdawg]

This accident was a result of complacency. Low time or high time, doesn't matter. We can all fall victim.

Didn't know you knew all the facts about the investigation. Please contact the NTSB and the FAA, they will be happy to hear from you.

 

[B1900FO]

I didn't mean to cause an argument here. I was simply making the point that we can all be taught to be safe, regardless of our experience level. The airlines, unlike corporate and GA have many decisions made for us, and many steps to follow before its a yay or nay decision.

Also, I worded a sentence wrong. This was the end of the safest period in US aviation history, not the entire world.

Have fun!

 

[Flightdawg]

I take issue with this statement. Not just because it's what the "news" keeps saying, but because it's inaccurate.

Agreed. There have been several close calls and fatalities: The SWA 737 at MDW, Air France at Toronto, Chalks at Miami, Corporate at Kirksville. The NTSB.gov website accident query page produced 15 results from 1/2001 to 8/2006 for fatal part 121 accidents. Not including Comair 5191, 37 fatalities in six accidents during the past two years alone. Those 37 families have had their lives tragically altered. It is presumptuous for talking heads and politicians to declare this "the safest period in aviation history."

 

[FR8mastr]

Hey all!

I think many of us have been very attentive to this board in the last week due to Comair's accident in Lexington. It's great to see that 98% of the worlds pilot group actually care about our fellow brothers.

I have noticed one thing. Nobody has bashed the pilot group at Comair? This says so much for Comair's reputation as a regional. They are not known as a regional with low timers who can barely fly an airplane. The are known as one of the best!

With that being said, had this been Pinnacle, Gulfstream, or any of the others who hire guys with low time, this board would be full of nothing but total bashing of the crew because the F.O. had 300 hours or something to that nature.

We just ended the safest period in aviation history with a very experienced crew. Look at that again, we just ended the SAFEST period in aviation history. This is the same period where PFT's became prevalent and 300 hr pilots were being hired at airlines.

So long!

While I agree with your post and the not bashing... dont forget history lest it repeat itself. Comair was the original buy your job airline. Although not exactly the same thing, the comair academy today with its implied promises of airline careers is not far off, they have just cut out that last payment.
ps before anyone starts bashing me, This had nothing to do with KY

 

[Nindiri]

When did Comair start pft? I thought most of the regionals started it about the same time back in the mid nineties.

 

[FR8mastr]

I dont know exactly when, but I do remember seeing the ads in the Flying type magazines for them in the late 80's perhaps very early 90's. They were the first of the PFT types to stop that practice I believe.

 

[Thedude]

I remember Comair having PFT as early as '91 and probably before that. I used to get weekly calls from them, trying to sell me the advanced pilots course (not real sure what that was) for the meer sum of $5000.

 

[Nindiri]

Maybe so. A friend of mine went to work there in 90 and while I could be wrong, I don't think he paid anything. Doesn't really matter now, I guess.

 

[CX880]

I think it's all about respect, now is not the time to bash the pilots. But after the investigation is done and if the pilots were at fault, that FO better check into the witness protection program because you can bet one crazy family member will be looking for him.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

There was a time in the 90s when it costs $11,000 at Comair.

Also I would never bash somone involved in a fatal crash. Be it Mesa, Pinnacle, Fedex, whatever. In my opinion its in bad taste. These folks died to teach us an important lesson. IMO it would disgrace their memory to lose sight of that. Virtually every resource, tools and safety equip. we have in place today is ultimately the result of somthing tragic in the past.

 

[Big Dog]

Well Said!

There's no reason to have a pilot in the cockpit of a Part 121 carrier that does NOT have an ATP. This is a more reasonable weed-out than a college degree, but it's still a requirement at many carriers.

At least if they have to take over in that unlikely event of incapacitation they are fully legal to do so, assuming they have a type.

 

[Blucher]

At least if they have to take over in that unlikely event of incapacitation they are fully legal to do so, assuming they have a type.

Now that's a silly thing to say.

-Blucher:laugh: