Something for Delta pilots to consider...

[RJPilott]

Or all pilots for that matter....

I posted this over at aca-lounge....
http://forums.aca-lounge.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=65571#post65571

The problem with todays industry (any industry) is the fact that the upper brass wins with every scenario (golden parachutes) regardless of the final outcome. While the labor point of view has everything to lose except for taking a stand and making a statement.

Put yourself in upper management shoes. They are set for life if Delta remains in business or not. They could care less. Its rather brilliant how upper brass in this country have developed a way to give themselves a win-win situation. The overall negotiation process is completely lop-sided (sp?). Think about it. Bottom line, everyone in this country looks out for number 1.. themselves, when it comes down to the wire. If the Delta pilots go on strike, they may be hero's in the eyes of other pilots (certainly in mine), however, the average layman will always look at them as overpaid spoiled brats. Meanwhile, upper brass retires to their 60" Plasma HDTV's, limestone pools with built in jacuzzi and water-fall in thier 20,000 sq ft mansions. While the average layman remains ignorant to the fact that it costs money if you want professional safe service from a Doctor, lawyer, pilot... or otherwise....

These people complaining about the Delta pilots considering a strike should get their ratings, get hired at Delta as a pilot (or any airline for that matter) then they can complain that 7.8% has the power to shut down a company. Freightpup, i couldnt have said it better myself.... That is also why i would like to see a link to this letter to see the responses....

I said it before and i'll say it again. The only way this industry will change is when there are weekly smoking holes from inexperienced pilots willing to work for peanuts. It will take some time, but the amount of education, experience and capital required to become a pilot and get hired at a somewhat decent airline will soon outweigh the rewards of being an airline pilot. In my eyes, it has already happened. Think about it. Where else would you spend close to 40-50k (some pay in the 100k) on a college degree with an additional 10-15-35k on your ratings only to be rewarded with a 10-20k/yr CFI job, followed by a regional job a few years later at 20-25k, followed by a 25-30k career job many years later at that major league airline you been drooling for all these years. Only to be greeted with, "We need to cut your pay, because we dont have the balls to ask for higher ticket prices. If you dont comply, we go out of business and I get a 5 million dollar golden parachute and you get unemployment or bottom of the list in some regional jet at 20k/yr... your choice". ALPA needs to stop all air service now if they want to save this industry. Or at the very least, create one-list so pilots can move from airline to airline and be compensated based on their experience and merits like every other industry in the USA. Or, the third option is to abolish unions altogether and let capitalism run its course (you treat me well, i treat you well, if not, i go to another company.. .you treat others like crap... you go out of business). If not, the downward spiral will continue to chase away experience and we will see more accidents. The amount of training involved to become an airline pilot today is just not competitive with other career fields (Years ago, airline recruiters were soliciting private pilots at grass fields climbing into a J-3). College grads are beginning to grasp this with the internet being an everyday part of life for research. Frankly, if i were in college today, there is no way i would persue an airline career. My love for flying would direct me to a career that would enable me to buy my own airplane. I would like to hear from one pilot today, that says it was all worth it. Sure, hindsight is 20/20. But i guarantee if every pilot here had to do it over again, they would be learning a career that would afford them their own Baron loaded with avionics while being able to move to another company within their career field having sacrificed very little for the transition, if not gaining, WRT their former company.

Imagine if every pilot today said, "Enough is enough, im not flying anymore till im compensated for my training and experience!".Will they put us all in jail? This country would be at a stand-still. Its obvious the greedy "shakers and movers" of the airline industry dont have the gonads to ask for higher ticket prices. So, its up to pilots to educate. I know... its a pipe dream.... The way the industry is today, Duane Worth-less would be a hero (and most likely have overwhelming support), if he said to congress, "ALPA... all of ALPA, every airline having ALPA, is going on strike next week if management doesnt raise ticket prices to reflect current demand and consumption (fuel). Not only that, but our pilots will not fly for any airline over what we dictate is reasonable duty limits. Put me in jail, but you will not have air service till you comply.... You want to go somewhere? You have two options, 1. buy your own airplane and fly there yourself... or 2. Pay us a reasonable wage for our responsibility, training, experience and cost of living. Until then, you get zero air service from us. "


Basically, what is currently happening is the "Walmart-ization" of this country. I hate to be doom and gloom, but i feel we are all in for a rude awakening if someone.. anyone... a leader perhaps.. doesnt stand up and say... enough is enough!

 

[pilotyip]

And here is another sign of the impending hiring boom for the next 20 years. Piltos who don't want to work will be replaced by pilots who want to work. If all US pilots elect not to work, the pilot jobs will be filled by ex patroits, or the flying may be taken over by foreign carriers. If this ties into the fly because you like to, then it is a great career.

 

[RJPilott]

If this ties into the fly because you like to, then it is a great career.

Personally, i'd much rather be a flight sim developer making 50k/yr fresh out of college at age 22. By the time im 35, making 150-500k getting royalties from my previous flight sim developments while having trouble to decide if i want to buy the King Air 200... or a 350. By the time im 45, i want the problem of deciding to upgrade my Hawker 800 for a G3 or a Challenger. By the time im 60, i want the problem of deciding if i should buy the new Gulfstream 7 or the Supersonic Global Express. All the while trying to figure out if i need to build a bigger hangar so it will fit with my F4U Corsair, P-51D, Baron 58 and J-3. Sound to good to be true? I know guys like this. I just wish i had only listened to them earlier.

For those of you that still think its worth it. Imagine if you focused your investment on a career with reward. How soon do you think you will be able to own a house in Chicago, NY, VA, CA while trying to make a living flying airplanes....

Much respect for Delta pilots. I just wish every other airline would walk out at the same time. Congress will re-regulate in a NY minute to provide reasonable wages by adjusting ticket prices for profit. Either that, or it will light a fire under their a$$'s to figure out how to lower fuel prices.

 

[pilotyip]

RJ and when rereg appears, ticket prices will go up, passengers riding will go down and not as many piltos will be needed to fly fewer flight, this would be good for a few and not so good for many. Remember there how 5 times as many pilot jobs under de-reg than there was under reg in 1977

 

[RJPilott]

RJ and when rereg appears, ticket prices will go up, passengers riding will go down and not as many piltos will be needed to fly fewer flight, this would be good for a few and not so good for many. Remember there how 5 times as many pilot jobs under de-reg than there was under reg in 1977

Well then hey... continue to spend hundreds of thousands on your training and college only to fly for peanuts during the better years of your life, all the while enjoying your upgrades to better QOL and payscale, while also keeping in mind you can be out of business at any time. When you find yourself on the street with 7000 hours total time, several type ratings and several thousand hours PIC 121 Jet trying to get a job for 23k in the right seat of a CRJ or 35-50k in the right seat of a citation, perhaps you will feel its all worth it instead of spending that precious college money on a career where you can move from job to job at payscales based on your experience.

II dont know how some pilots do it, but i have seen 10,000 hour pilots go from 150-250k per year down to 25-35k per year. Its absurd. No other industry would tolerate this nonsense. Im almost to the point that i believe ALPA may be the root cause of all our problems. Yes they were good in their day. But its quite obvious they have not adapted. And for those that retort with "they" are "you", because we elect... save it...lol


In order for the profession to survive to a respectable level, something radical must take place/ Its either going to be more smoking holes by chasing away experience (which is already happening), or everyone walking out with some going to jail because of it.

Here is the letter i read to motivate me for starting this thread....

I am a reservations agent in Tampa, Florida and I thought that it might be beneficial to express to you what many of us on the front lines feel about the pilot's position regarding a strike. I don't write this to attack you in any way, and in fact, I am probably more sympathetic than most of my fellow agents. I recognize that nobody wants to have their pay cut and while many of us that make less than $30,000 a year find it difficult to be sympathetic to a work group that averages over $150,000 a year, I recognize that people tend to live up to their means and a cut in pay for anyone is a real and sincere sacrifice.

That being said, I believe that your threat to strike is myopic and self serving. I have read some of the material on the ALPA web site and in a number of places the claim is made that Delta is "Our Airline". I beg to differ. It is not only "your" airline. There are about 6000 pilots out of over 47,000 employees. It is as much my airline as it is yours and yet you hold the power to take action that will not only effect you, but 41,000 other people.

I am certain we could have a healthy debate about contracts and fairness, what you have and have not given, what the company has done or not done ad nauseam. I don't doubt that there is some validity to your position. No side can be completely right in such a matter. But the bottom line is that this is not the same industry that it was 10 years ago. 9-11, the advent of low cost carriers, changes in the dynamics of business travel and rising fuel prices, among other things, have altered the dynamics of the industry forever and an airline simply cannot sustain itself with the cost structure it was once able to. I find it difficult to believe that if you shut down our airline, the people you represent are going to be able to walk out on the street and find jobs making what that would make even if you accept Delta's concession in toto.

One line in your letter caught my attention. It is a sad footnote in Delta's history that in a business where people matter... To be blunt, people are not just pilots and as you chart a course forward, I hope you will take into consideration that there are 41,000 of us out here that your decisions will impact. 41,000 of us that have mortgages, kids to feed, cars to pay for and backs to put clothes on. We have made our own sacrifices, absorbed pay cuts and benefit reductions and we have hung in there because we believe that if we all pull together, we can turn Delta around and bring her back to the great airline she once was. Quite frankly, we are angry that 7.8% of the workforce has power over the rest of us...that 7.8% of the workforce has the capacity to send the other 92.2% of us to the unemployment line. Since it is OUR airline, perhaps all 47,000 of us should vote as to whether you strike or not.

I think I am pretty typical of most of the front line Delta employees. I made less then $30,000 last year. I have taken pay and benefit cuts to stay with Delta. Why? Because I enjoy my job, I enjoy the ability to travel and I have found Delta to be a good company to work for. But, at what I make, I don't have a cushion. I live pretty much paycheck to paycheck and I am basically up the proverbial creek if that paycheck stops, even for a short time. I would guess that most of your pilots have the means to handle a temporary period of unemployment, but most of us on the customer service side do not have that luxury. Is your union going to help me pay my rent and child support if you choose to strike and run this airline out of business?

You have complained that you believe that the company views the threat of a strike as "saber rattling" or empty threats, but I get the impression that you believe the claim that a strike would force a liquidation of the company as an idle threat as well. I have a background in business and a degree and accounting and let me assure you, these are not empty words. Delta Airlines does not have the resources to survive even a short strike. If one looks at the situation objectively, one has to conclude that the pilot's position is based either on ignorance to reality or that you simply do not care what happens to YOUR airline. Either way, it seems pretty foolish from this vantage point.

Finally, I should add that I work in special member services and spend my day talking almost exclusively to medallion level frequent fliers. I talk to between 60 and 100 people a day and I am asked multiple times each day what I think about the possibility of a strike. In all of the months that this has been going on, I have yet to ever have one passenger state that they support your position. Most are sympathetic, but state the obvious...the industry has changed and you would be foolish to strike.

I don't expect this to change your mind, or alter your position, but I felt that it was important, as you move forward, to be reminded of the responsibility you have taken upon yourself. You are not only playing with the lives of the men and women you represent, you are playing with the lives of 41,000 other people, not to mention our passengers, who have entrusted their money and plans to us in the faith that we will get them where they need to go. There is only one word that can be used for a course of action that would negatively impact so many people in such a profound way...selfish. I urge you to endeavor to find some solution to this issue short of shutting down the airline. It is simply not the right thing to do."

Regards
N160LH

 

[pilotyip]

Been there done that many times in my career not from 150K to 35K but 70K to 12K, loading cargo as a load master on CV-580. Makes DA-20 standards at USA Jet look real gooooooood!