SO how does this work... ?

[mattpilot]

Recently i've been asked to fly with an older guy who has a Private pilot certificate, but lost his medical. He also owns his own airplane.

He likes to fly, so he asks CFI's to go with him (since he can't act as PIC, with no medical). Basically how it works is, the CFI is the 'baby-sitter' and watches the old guy fly.

So.... how could one go about logging this? Can it be logged as dual given? He obviously isn't training for a license or rating, but then again, giving flight reviews fits the same description, and it can be logged as dual given.

Also, it is my understanding that if the "student" owns a plane, it does not need to comply with the 100 hour inspection if instruction is taking place in it. Is that correct?



thanks

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Dual given, PIC, Cat/Class and Conditions all go in your logbook.

 

[User546]

I've been in your exact same situation (still am I guess). An older gentleman about 80 yrs old, owns a Mooney, and lost his medical last August. He still likes to fly his airplane, but since he's not legal to now (with no medical) he always takes me along with him.

The way I see it, is you are PIC plain and simple. He couldn't even be PIC if he wanted to. You're not babysitting, your not giving dual instruction, your simply flying an airplane with a friend. Besides, your the only legally-qualified pilot on board. The fact that he flies the airplane doesn't change any of that.

I wouldn't log it as dual given for the reasons stated. Your not training him to a further rating, and unless your working him up for a BFR (which your not) then I wouldn't log it as dual either. He can't legally pilot the airplane, so to me it'd seem a bit suspicious giving a bunch of dual given to someone who isn't qualified. Thats like grabbing someone from work and taking him up and calling it dual given - it's not.

As for you, you log those flights PIC all the way. Think of it this way, if your flying along (or him) and something goes wrong and, for instance, he gears up the airplane, who do you think the FAA's going to be coming after?

 

[mattpilot]

I know that i'll be the only PIC on board - and will be logging it that way.

Even though he has some 1500 hours as a private pilot, he isn't the 'safest' guy flying around, and not only because of his medical condition.

I constantly have to adjust altitude (By trim wheel, so he doesn't notice it as much ) and adjusting our ground track by use of rudder. I'm sneaky . I also keep reminding him to push buttons, e.g. turn off fuel pump after take off.

Anyhow.... as I have just recently obtained my CFI cert with no real CFI job, i was wondering if i can use this setup to build dual given time.

People who have previously flown with him have logged it as dual given, although i'm not so sure because, as i stated in the first post, i'm not giving him training to obtain a certificate or rating.

So i was just wondering if there is some FAA definition about dual given. I couldn't find any in part 61.

 

[midlifeflyer]

As for you, you log those flights PIC all the way. Think of it this way, if your flying along (or him) and something goes wrong and, for instance, he gears up the airplane, who do you think the FAA's going to be coming after?

Actually, you can't log them as PIC.

It's one of the quirks or 61.51 that you can only log time when you are the sole manipulator or are PIC on a flight that requires at least two pilot crewmembers. Flying with a pilot who lost his medical falls into neither category. (Everybody complains about the times the pilot who is obviously not PIC gets to log it under the regs; this is the flip side - there are times the person who is the {IC does not get to log it)
.
I don't have a big problem treating this as dual.

Basically how it works is, the CFI is the 'baby-sitter' and watches the old guy fly.

..and helps him maintain his flying skills.

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Actually, you can't log them as PIC.

It's one of the quirks or 61.51 that you can only log time when you are the sole manipulator or are PIC on a flight that requires at least two pilot crewmembers. Flying with a pilot who lost his medical falls into neither category. (Everybody complains about the times the pilot who is obviously not PIC gets to log it under the regs; this is the flip side - there are times the person who is the {IC does not get to log it)
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I don't have a big problem treating this as dual...and helps him maintain his flying skills.

Quirk heck. You're a CFI flying with anybody giving them dual instruction...you're PIC.

People who have previously flown with him have logged it as dual given, although i'm not so sure because, as i stated in the first post, i'm not giving him training to obtain a certificate or rating.

Doesn't matter. Dual Given, PIC, Cat/Class and Conditions all go in your logbook.

 

[mattpilot]

okay.... thanks guys.

just one more unresolved question....

Also, it is my understanding that if the "student" owns a plane, it does not need to comply with the 100 hour inspection if instruction is taking place in it. Is that correct?

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Correct. It's his airplane and is subject only to annual inspections provided he does not lease the airplane back to a flight school.

 

[mattpilot]

thanks

 

[unreal]

Actually, you can't log them as PIC.

It's one of the quirks or 61.51 that you can only log time when you are the sole manipulator or are PIC on a flight that requires at least two pilot crewmembers. Flying with a pilot who lost his medical falls into neither category. (Everybody complains about the times the pilot who is obviously not PIC gets to log it under the regs; this is the flip side - there are times the person who is the {IC does not get to log it)

I'm not really following this either. A CFI watching a student fly still logs PIC time. What's the difference here?