slowing it down.

[scubabri]

for you jet drivers, what guidelines/rules do you use to get down and slow down to make an approach?

thanks

sb

 

[FL000]

In the CRJ, if you get lower and slower from ATC and you're getting crunched on time/space, it's best to get slow first, then low. The RJ is slick when it's clean, but when you start hanging stuff off of it, it's a homesick brick.

 

[Clyde]

for you jet drivers, what guidelines/rules do you use to get down and slow down to make an approach?

thanks

sb

Try to be at 10K' and 250Kts between 30 and 40 miles out. From there, configure the airplane on schedule and be fully configured for landing by the time the glideslope is captured (or no more than 1.5 mile from the FAF on a non-precision approach).

If you're still trying to "dive" and slow the airplane down all while rapidly approaching the final approach fix, then it's time to go-around and/or request some vectoring.

Following company procedures and reccomendations set forth in the training guide too.

 

[redd]

xxxxx

 

[avbug]

The answer all depends on what you're trying to accomplish at the time. If you're meeting a crossing restriction, start down a little early and give yourself X number of miles before the fix to slow. Or slow down at the top of the descent and make the descent at a slower speed. What you do all depends on what's required at the time.

You have the option in a turbojet of undershooting or overshooting your target power setting by a large margin, right back to flight idle if necessary, without any harm to the engine. This, unlike a piston engine.

That means that if your target power setting for descent at a given speed is XXX% or EPR, then pull it back by a margin beneath that number. Descend at a reduced rate, and you can usually slow down during the descent.

How much depends on what's required. Going down and slowing down isn't always easy to accomplish; you're often better off being slow before you descend. Otherwise, plan on getting down a little early, in order to slow down...or on making an intermediate level off or descent reduction in order to achieve your desired speed.

ATC will often give you a clue as to what's required. "XXX, slow to 210 knots, then descend to 14 thousand...," Or "Descend now and maintain six thousand, then slow one eight zero knots...". The specifics of what you do depend entirely on what the moment requires.

My favored method is to have everyone roll down the windows and put their arms out. The drag is tremendous .

 

[FracCapt]

My favored method is to have everyone roll down the windows and put their arms out. The drag is tremendous .

Uhhh.....arms? No way. You're doing it wrong. You have everybody stick their legs out the holes in the bottom. Legs are usually bigger, therefore create more drag. Plus, then they are already ready to apply the "brakes" when you touchdown.

 

[PropsForward]

Uhhh.....arms? No way. You're doing it wrong. You have everybody stick their legs out the holes in the bottom. Legs are usually bigger, therefore create more drag. Plus, then they are already ready to apply the "brakes" when you touchdown.

Love it! Flintstone Airlines.

 

[Guillotine007]

if you are a van driver..lord knows you have no problem now getting it slowed down, especially if you are light

 

[avbug]

Dodge Grand Caravan driver. Slows down better with kids in the back, I think. They're too short to put their feet through the floor though. I wouldn't let them, if they could...a pair of sneakers in their posession only lasts a month, and that's a good month.

Slowing down and going down can be done in a lower gear...

 

[Uncle Sparky]

Just use the boards!!!.............



One thing that hasn't been touched on that you might want to consider Scubabri, is when you start flying in the flight levels(esp. this time of year), winds from the West can exceed 150kts! If you are flying an FMS equipped airplane it's a "no-brainer" but even on early planes most people use the "3:1 rule". The type of airplane that you'll fly is another big factor. I fly a Lear and it'll drop like an anvil if you need it to. I have friends that fly 767's and they say the boards aren't very affective for descent.

 

[EagleRJ]

One trick is to use multiples of 60- whichever is equal or greater to your groundspeed- and convert it to miles. Example:

You are 125 miles from the airport (1000 MSL) at FL280, with a groundspeed of 450 Kts.

Next highest multiple of 60 = 480 (60*8) = Eight miles a minute.

Assuming 1000 FPM decent rate, 27 minutes equates to starting your decent 216 miles out.
...or 108 miles out at 2000 FPM,
...or 72 miles out at 3000 FPM.

Keep in mind that there are a lot of variables that will impact any linear system like this- changing wind, intermediate ATC level-offs, and having to level at 10,000 to slow down. Like others have said, it's hard to decend clean in most jets, and you should treat below 10,000 and inside 30 miles as being "in the pattern".

Most modern jets have VNAV/FMS decent planning, which is the best thing since sliced bread!
Math = bad!

 

[FracCapt]

One trick is to use multiples of 60- whichever is equal or greater to your groundspeed- and convert it to miles. Example:

You are 125 miles from the airport (1000 MSL) at FL280, with a groundspeed of 450 Kts.

Next highest multiple of 60 = 480 (60*8) = Eight miles a minute.

Waaaaaaaaaay too much math dude! Altitude to lose times three...that's how far out you need to start down. Altitude to lose times four if you have a tailwind. That'll get you down in every jet I've flown. This assumes a flight idle descent. It will likely get you down well before you need to be....but that's better than blowing your crossing restriction. This formula does not work very well when doing 250KIAS. Most jets don't descend more than 2000fpm at 250KIAS when clean....though, you can increase that with speedbrakes(or thrust reverse on the #2 and #3 engines on a JT8 engined DC-8).

 

[jimpilot]

Gulfstream

Altitude X 3 = distance to start down has worked in G3 to GV