SLI Arbitration/Negotiation Deadline Still 11/20

[General Lee]

That took a lot of work.......very nice. and what was the end result of that merger arbitration.................................

Date of hire, with fences.

Yes, the Roberts award did that. And the latest precedent, the Nicelau award, did not. Even your retired NWA negotiator stated in the article that:


Then for contrast, we would
10 suggest reviewing the Northwest/Republic
11 arbitrator's work to see how not to do it."


Remember how the guy on the stand did NOT want to read that? He did anyway. And finding those quotes didn't take too long. It was all around pg 838 in the testimony for 10-20.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

Yes, the Roberts award did that. And the latest precedent, the Nicelau award, did not.

Comparing similar, "equal" airlines to AAA and AWA will not happen. Even Nicalau stated that date of hire would have given a huge windfall to AAA. His award will not and is not the precedent. Sorry......

 

[General Lee]

Comparing similar, "equal" airlines to AAA and AWA will not happen. Even Nicalau stated that date of hire would have given a huge windfall to AAA. His award will not and is not the precedent. Sorry......

Really? You think so. AAA was the failing airline, yet still got the top 500 spots. AAA and AWA were fairly close in size, but the small difference allowed AAA to dump ALPA. I don't know where you are getting your info (other than NAPLA), but it will very much be looked at. And your own people on the stand (remember all the stuff I just put here for your viewing pleasure?) say that they should have used ratios, and the Roberts award was NOT the way to go. You can go ahead and disagree with them too. DOH has not been used since the new ALPA merger policy was enacted, and the arbitrators have to follow the policy. Your argument was the same one USAir East had, and we all know how that came out. You say Nicelau stated DOH would have given AAA a windfalll. Between our two proposals, if our's is implemented, we as a group move up 2%, thanks to putting your bottom 400 on the bottom. If your proposal is implemented, we Deltoids all MOVE BACK 14%. Windfall, eh? Do you think if you throw in something crazy, you MAY still get something in the middle? Nope. Not gonna happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Congratulations, you are as ignorant of ALPA merger policy as your expert witnesses. I can list at least one ALPA seniority list integration that was ratioed by jobs brought to the merger since 1991, can you name one that went DOH?

FDJ,

Yes, actually. The Piedmont/Allegheny merger was DOH with fences (for bases), and that happened in 2004.

Actually, it's a very good precedent. Although they were both regionals, they were basically thought of as equals (hmmm, I remember that being brought up recently), but had some differences in demographics.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

FDJ,

Yes, actually. The Piedmont/Allegheny merger was DOH with fences (for bases), and that happened in 2004.

Actually, it's a very good precedent. Although they were both regionals, they were basically thought of as equals (hmmm, I remember that being brought up recently), but had some differences in demographics.

Nu

It was a good precedent, compared to the Nicelau award? Hey, you should go with that then.....and make sure you don't re-read any of your NWA testimony that stated you should go with ratios anyway....Do you think the USAir East guys also knew anything about the Piedmont/Allegheny arbitration? Do you think they used it? Your current lawyer was their lawyer too, you know? How did that all work out?

Also, before you stated Eddie came to MSP and stated not much would happen, initially. As ACL65 pointed out, that mainly has to do with your ground guys and mechanics union not allowing our DGS guys to push back or fix planes. Well, when those guys have a vote here in about 6 months, we'll see if the union stays or goes. Then, there will be some movement. We still have "confidential" business plans that were shown in the arbitration, and we'll see how it goes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

It We still have "confidential" business plans that were shown in the arbitration, and we'll see how it goes.

Yup, and those business plans have changed about six times since then. When was that last AE supposed to be out? What am I hearing now? January? In the meantime, that bad, old NWA PWA keeps awarding new positions, every month, like clockwork.

"No significant changes" and from the CEO of NWA plays very well at the arbitration hearings.

Better yet, it makes fantastic testimony about how you can't make any agreement (especially one like a SLI) based on what management MIGHT do.

Nu

 

[nwaredtail]

Yup, and those business plans have changed about six times since then. When was that last AE supposed to be out? What am I hearing now? January? In the meantime, that bad, old NWA PWA keeps awarding new positions, every month, like clockwork.

"No significant changes" and from the CEO of NWA plays very well at the arbitration hearings.

Better yet, it makes fantastic testimony about how you can't make any agreement (especially one like a SLI) based on what management MIGHT do.

Nu

Nu, we are just wasting our time with bi-polar boy and his herd of tools. Anyway, you got your uniform already? Yikes

 

[Noserider76]

You guys realize this has no affect on anything and you can never "win" the argument here? Blowing off a little stress I guess. Realize that when you insult one side to hammer whomever you think is a tool, you also generally insult all the other middle of the road people on both sides as well.

Any guesses on how long the hate and discontent continues after the SLI award? 6mos, 1 year, 5 years, the rest of our career?

Anyone hear anything about Alaska joining the club?

 

[nwaredtail]

Any guesses on how long the hate and discontent continues after the SLI award? 6mos, 1 year, 5 years, the rest of our career?

from history, years......

Anyone hear anything about Alaska joining the club?

don't think that would fly with doj now that we are so big.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Anyone hear anything about Alaska joining the club?

Alaska, yes, They want Date of Hire.

They can see Russia from the crew lounge.

(stolen jokes, but they were too good not to share)

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes. They are pretty much a DCI carrier in this new airline anyway.

.....but they're allowed to fly the big airplanes...they must be special DCI pilots.....

Maybe we need a third classification of ALPA pilot....We have major pilots and we have regional pilots....Now we can have major regional pilots......:laugh:

 

[~~~^~~~]

That would be super premium non large cabin Boeing to us.

 

[FDJ2]

That took a lot of work.......very nice. and what was the end result of that merger arbitration.................................

Date of hire, with fences.

Ah yes, the Robert's award. Perhaps the best example on how not to integrate seniority lists.

"If you have a limited time frame to prepare, we would urge you to concentrate first on the various cases involving Continental and to do so in chronological order. Then for contrast, we would suggest reviewing the Northwest/Republic arbitrator's work to see how not to do it."

Can you think of any changes in ALPA merger policy since the Robert's award fiasco?

 

[FDJ2]

Comparing similar, "equal" airlines to AAA and AWA will not happen. ......

Yeah, when Nicolau concluded that both airlines needed each other equally he was only kidding.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ah yes, the Robert's award. Perhaps the best example on how not to integrate seniority lists.

"If you have a limited time frame to prepare, we would urge you to concentrate first on the various cases involving Continental and to do so in chronological order. Then for contrast, we would suggest reviewing the Northwest/Republic arbitrator's work to see how not to do it."

Can you think of any changes in ALPA merger policy since the Robert's award fiasco?

FDJ2....did you know that there are NWA pilots who hired on to fly 19 seat Metroliners?.....How does that fit into the "career expectations" argument.....I believe they even got DOH.....