SLC bait soon to come!

[Jack-O-Lantern]

There is probably little interest in SKW keeping two bases in SLC. Here is the bait: If you do not except these consesions we will close the SLC base.All the while, knowing it was going to be closed anyway! Its a common stratagy for management in negotiations. Will ASA pilots fall for it? It will be interesting to see.
Before you bite on this or any other promises or threats, try researching past practices of managements in negotiations. You wont have to go far just look at your old brotherin at Comair and their last consesions!

 

[labbats]

Did someone say jailbait?

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

Bait it may be?

There is probably little interest in SKW keeping two bases in SLC. Here is the bait: If you do not except these consesions we will close the SLC base.All the while, knowing it was going to be closed anyway! Its a common stratagy for management in negotiations. Will ASA pilots fall for it? It will be interesting to see.
Before you bite on this or any other promises or threats, try researching past practices of managements in negotiations. You wont have to go far just look at your old brotherin at Comair and their last consesions!

DAL dropped the Bait and the Ball by moving out of DFW. Now SKYW is left with the decision to have 2 bases in one city. DAL management is more to blame than SKYW INC. It is regretable that DAL gave away millions by vacating DFW.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Weren't they giving away millions while operating in DFW?

 

[General Lee]

DAL dropped the Bait and the Ball by moving out of DFW. Now SKYW is left with the decision to have 2 bases in one city. DAL management is more to blame than SKYW INC. It is regretable that DAL gave away millions by vacating DFW.

We were competing with our beautiful 70 seat RJs against AA MD80s. We lost.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Puck Mugger]

We were competing with our beautiful 70 seat RJs against AA MD80s. We lost.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's only part of the story General and we all know it. DAL was competing with AA MD80s with DAL 88s and 90s for a long time and lost their ass for years. Hence the ill fated experiment of an RJ hub which is what DAL became at DFW for all practical purposes.

The real cause is the *************************ing morons that run ALL airlines that try the same suicidal trick of trying to establish a hub in another carriers hub there by starting the rediculous fare wars that kill em all in due time.

I realize that that RJ is a great lightning rod that you fellars like to blame on the failure of Delta. Place the blame where it belongs, on your BOD. Get over the whole RJ thing. If you guys had chosen to fly 'em 12 years ago, you'd still have jobs.

Remember:

Airframes don't kill airlines....airline management kills airlines.

 

[sweptback]

The real cause is the *************************ing morons that run ALL airlines that try the same suicidal trick of trying to establish a hub in another carriers hub there by starting the rediculous fare wars that kill em all in due time.

In defense of Delta, they did move into DFW long before AA was the established mega-hub carrier they are now. They just never really competed there due to the "if it's West of the Mississippi we don't want anything to do with it" mantra of Delta management.

AA took advantage of Delta's incompetence in expanding the DFW hub operations, and that's why they had the megahub that eventually squeezed DL out.

 

[JBcrjca]

In defense of Delta, they did move into DFW long before AA was the established mega-hub carrier they are now. They just never really competed there due to the "if it's West of the Mississippi we don't want anything to do with it" mantra of Delta management.

Very good point. Delta had been operating out of Dallas since the humble origins of the airline. The original June 1929 route for Delta Air Service was Dallas to Jackson with 8 stops along the way. Delta shut down for a while after the 1930 air mail contract shenanigans, but re-emerged as Delta Air Lines in 1934. Only then did they extend the route map east the Atlanta.

Looking at '70s vintage DL timetables, they had a pretty good-sized operation at DAL, then moving across town to DFW. The crews domiciled there flew DC-8s, DC-9s, B727s, and L-1011s. In the mid-80s, they made a huge expansion to the hub with the addition of the B737-200 fleet.

It would have been great if DL had stuck with it and given AA a run for the money, but by the late '80s the emphasis had shifted to ATL. As it worked out, they tucked their tails between their legs and hid from AA.

I passed through Terminal E at DFW a few weeks ago. The southern half is a ghost-town now. It's pretty sad considering how busy it used to be back in the '80s.

 

[General Lee]

That's only part of the story General and we all know it. DAL was competing with AA MD80s with DAL 88s and 90s for a long time and lost their ass for years. Hence the ill fated experiment of an RJ hub which is what DAL became at DFW for all practical purposes.

The real cause is the *************************ing morons that run ALL airlines that try the same suicidal trick of trying to establish a hub in another carriers hub there by starting the rediculous fare wars that kill em all in due time.

I realize that that RJ is a great lightning rod that you fellars like to blame on the failure of Delta. Place the blame where it belongs, on your BOD. Get over the whole RJ thing. If you guys had chosen to fly 'em 12 years ago, you'd still have jobs.

Remember:

Airframes don't kill airlines....airline management kills airlines.

Puck,

I agree with you somewhat. Management is to blame about failed ideas. The real source of the problem was Song. I love Song first of all, and I thought it had a great product, but it will now go back to mainline. The problem was that when we created Song initially, with 36 757s, we had to pull those planes from mainline service and throw them onto routes that used to be Delta Express 737s. To cover for those 757s going to Song, we moved 738s on those old routes, and then MD88s on the 738 routes (like PHX during the Summer---made no sense), and the 737-300s & -200s on those MD88 routes etc. That left us with the cure all--the CR7---to cover the rest, and people voted with their feet.

I can see more CR7s going to DCI to cover the old CRJ 50 seat flying, since they are a bit more comfortable and probably create more revenue, but anything larger than that will be ours. Every ALPA MEC member I have talked to said the line is at 70 seats, and we shouldn't have let it get there in the first place. We all know that we should have kept RJs at mainline, but that was one of a few huge mistakes ALPA made, and they now know it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

How do you know, ole ALL MIGHTY, that you WILL get anything???? Last I checked, DAL management, BOD or shareholders DO NOT check with Gen Lee to decide on what they will do!!!!!!

Man............YOU DRIVE ME F-ING CRAZY!!!!!!!

 

[slavi8or]

Ok Gen. Lee, this is how it's probably going to go down. Management will offer DL pilots $90 an hour to fly 90 seat RJ's after 15yrs. You'll refuse it and DCI will get them. Then, as if we had a choice, you'll blame us for flying it for nothing and ruining your lifestyle. Personally, I think a 15 year captain is a 15yr captain. 777 or EMB120. WE ALL WANT THIS TO BE A LUCRATIVE CAREER.

You guys fly the 75-76 for the same $$? Last I checked the 76 is bigger than the 75 . Just curious.

ASA pilots are trying to stop this race to the bottom. We are not going to take a pay cut. Period. The buck stops here and a lot of us are willing to let this place die to stop it. You?

Personally, I just wanted to fly my Brasilia at my DCI carrier, get my time and head to Delta. Quickly learned with Delta you had to be military b*tt buddy with a degree or they wouldn't look at you. The holier than thou attitude.

Be careful, that elitist attitude may bite you back.

________________________________________________

What's next? Wal-mart air! Always the low pay, always.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Hear Ye! Hear Ye! General Lee is a tool.

 

[General Lee]

How do you know, ole ALL MIGHTY, that you WILL get anything???? Last I checked, DAL management, BOD or shareholders DO NOT check with Gen Lee to decide on what they will do!!!!!!

Man............YOU DRIVE ME F-ING CRAZY!!!!!!!

And you, dude, are the most rational guy on this board.........You have some major problems to deal with yourself right now, so I would concentrate on that. When I listed some reasons why I believe we will prevail, you come up with "You drive me F'n crazy." You have nothing to bring to this debate. Work on it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Hear Ye! Hear Ye! General Lee is a tool.

Good come back. Awesome. You and 79%N1 could be twins. Twin dorks.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[L1011 Rules!]

What's next? Wal-mart air! Always the low pay, always.[/quote]

No they are to smart to get into the aviation business.

No one mentioned a good part of the reason why DL was beaten in DFW? Any guesses? Since every one knows everything!

Yes American had to do with DL's demise, the RJ's also played a factor but a factor no one ever seems to think of is the other airport with that other little airline called SOUTHWEST! The DFW Metroplex is enourmous but it does not have enough O&D (ok for you college drop outs O&D = Origin Destination) to support 3 hubs! The local traffic was not strong enough especially with SW over at DAL drawing most of the local traffic. So then you you have the Hub and spoke system which made no real sense to operate the DFW hub without the supporting O&D. Additionally you have HOU and IAH again SW and CO hubs fighting for the very same traffic in the hub and spoke system that DFW was after. The same issue that is impacting CVG!!!! CVG is surrounded by other major hubs (CLE, DTW, ORD, MDW, IND) all competing for the midwest traffic in a hub n spoke system....CVG does not have much O&D but it is enough to continue operations for the forseable future. Additionally Delta only made a profit 1 year for all the years it had a HUB in DFW...This is fact not fiction and has been published numerous times long before DL annouced DFW hub Closure.

So get ready ytou Dallas guys because the writing is on the wall and ATL will soon be our only hub until we pick up either CO, UA or whom ever elses flying in the near future.

 

[General Lee]

Southwest and DAL Love Field really didn't affect us much, since we were mainly using it as a hub and spoke. Sure, we had some "loyal" DFW passengers, but mainly we used it to move people from one side of the country to the next, or to connect them to smaller towns in the Texas/OK/LA area, places Southwest may not serve---like Texxarkana. Our feed consisted of long CR7 flights from OAK, SNA, or ONT and connect to DCA, JFK, and PBI on MORE CR7s. Business travellers didn't enjoy the tight cabins with no First Class, and they couldn't get work done. And, nothing is more fun than connecting across country on two large RJs. We soon had to sell seats as cheap as possible just to find people to fill the planes. That equalled major losses.

As far as CVG goes, you may be right----it might be gone with a NW merger. But, their MEM will go, and we will still have ATL, JFK, and SLC, with theirs being MSP and DTW--with a mutual LA hub for crews. That is the future, boys......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

And you, dude, are the most rational guy on this board.........You have some major problems to deal with yourself right now, so I would concentrate on that. When I listed some reasons why I believe we will prevail, you come up with "You drive me F'n crazy." You have nothing to bring to this debate. Work on it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

No, you dont list reasons why you BELIEVE anything!!! You state EVERYTHING like it is gospel fact, and that is the way it will be, or that is what every pilot at Delta thinks! You expound on us your opinions and you consistantly degrade the regional pilots with your I'm better attitude. Go ahead and flame me, but most agree. FDJ2 is faaaaaaaaaaar more rational than you, as he never expounds opinions as facts, as you usually do. Oh, I forgot, you usually hear all your 'facts' from some chief pilot that you always seem to be discussing the worlds woes with! (I'm surprised your facts dont usually come from some dinner you had with Leo or ole GG themselves!) I think it's time for me to block you again, for my sanity.

Oh yea, your name calling is real rational and mature. I expect more from a Delta Pilot! We look up to you, and all!

 

[USCtrojan]

Dal Hub

Southwest and DAL Love Field really didn't affect us much, since we were mainly using it as a hub and spoke. Sure, we had some "loyal" DFW passengers, but mainly we used it to move people from one side of the country to the next, or to connect them to smaller towns in the Texas/OK/LA area, places Southwest may not serve---like Texxarkana. Our feed consisted of long CR7 flights from OAK, SNA, or ONT and connect to DCA, JFK, and PBI on MORE CR7s. Business travellers didn't enjoy the tight cabins with no First Class, and they couldn't get work done. And, nothing is more fun than connecting across country on two large RJs. We soon had to sell seats as cheap as possible just to find people to fill the planes. That equalled major losses.

As far as CVG goes, you may be right----it might be gone with a NW merger. But, their MEM will go, and we will still have ATL, JFK, and SLC, with theirs being MSP and DTW--with a mutual LA hub for crews. That is the future, boys......


Bye Bye--General Lee

I agree with the CVG/Memphis going away with a merger. However, how many years did DAL operate out of DFW and turn a profit? Even in the early years before RJ's, I believe the best Delta ever did was break even.

Trojan

 

[General Lee]

I agree with the CVG/Memphis going away with a merger. However, how many years did DAL operate out of DFW and turn a profit? Even in the early years before RJ's, I believe the best Delta ever did was break even.

Trojan

No, you're right, there weren't too many profitable years(maybe a couple quarters??). But, at the time, we were making cash hand over fist in other places, so we could subsidise that DFW operation. Not anymore. We are now focusing on areas that could produce profits--like more INTL and beefing up our ATL hub. Now that Indy Air is gone (sorry to their employees), the yeilds can only go up on the East Coast. $29 one way from IAD to ATL was crazy. Getting rid of some CRJ 50s would help too, and I am sure there will some future agreement to replace those with more 70 seaters.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jrav8tor]

No, you're right, there weren't too many profitable years(maybe a couple quarters??). But, at the time, we were making cash hand over fist in other places, so we could subsidise that DFW operation.

And this boys and girls is why Delta has found themselves from operating the strongest balance sheets in the industry to now doing everything possible to prevent going out of business. This is not the only reason obviously, but as the General pointed out, DL mgmt was making so much money that they could care less if the DFW hub was losing money.

IMHO, DL mgmt should be investigated and prosecuted for taking an airline with such a strong balance sheet and running it into the ground. I don't see how they are any different the mgmt of Enron, Worldcomm, or Tyco. Thousands of employees and hundreds of thousands of shareholders have lost tons of money, meanwhile, Leo and his cronies have left with Million dollar golden parachutes, and now are complaining about losing they're positive space passes!!!

Shareholders and employees who have already given back more money than they should, are now preparing themselves for life without hard earned pensions. What are these people suppose to do after they have worked for 30 yrs. and have no other skill set?

 

[CFIT]

Our feed consisted of long CR7 flights from OAK, SNA, or ONT and connect to DCA, JFK, and PBI on MORE CR7s. Business travellers didn't enjoy the tight cabins with no First Class, and they couldn't get work done. And, nothing is more fun than connecting across country on two large RJs. We soon had to sell seats as cheap as possible just to find people to fill the planes.


That is the future, boys......


Bye Bye--General Lee

Really Stunt Rump?

American with Eagle seemed to do the same routes just fine with their RJ's.

Maybe people just don't like Delta, because of knobs like you...spoog

 

[General Lee]

Really Stunt Rump?

American with Eagle seemed to do the same routes just fine with their RJ's.

Maybe people just don't like Delta, because of knobs like you...spoog

Wow, you really are articulate. You seem to forget that AA had three times the number of flights in DFW to feed those RJs. Businessmen could probably handle one leg on an RJ, but not connect to another CR7 on Delta. That was too much for them. Got it yet? You need to learn how to debate. You need to actually come up with something you can back up. I have an answer, a correct one, for everything you say, LOSER.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CFIT]

Wow, you really are articulate. You need to actually come up with something you can back up. I have an answer, a correct one, for everything you say, LOSER.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You are so smart.

And,you use such big words.

Plus, you ride bikes with your husband and lift weights....baconstrip

 

[General Lee]

You are so smart.

And,you use such big words.

Plus, you ride bikes with your husband and lift weights....baconstrip

Yeah, my husband.......he is SOOOO HOT. He is a DELTA PILOT. DARN SEXY........ You need to read some S.A.T. prep books to enlarge your vocab. Maybe then you could actually take an S.A.T. test. Go for it you TARD.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

wow

baconstrip!!! lmao

GL just admit that beyond all your scope on a rope arguing that DFW has and will have more potential than SLC. ATL is going to turn into DFW if DL doesn't watch the clock. VAluetran is just as sneaky as SWA. DL has already been canceling flights due to lack of PAX out of SLC. This is not good. OGG for example is a 3 day layover. How long is this going to last? Parked 767's for 3 days?

 

[General Lee]

baconstrip!!! lmao

GL just admit that beyond all your scope on a rope arguing that DFW has and will have more potential than SLC. ATL is going to turn into DFW if DL doesn't watch the clock. VAluetran is just as sneaky as SWA. DL has already been canceling flights due to lack of PAX out of SLC. This is not good. OGG for example is a 3 day layover. How long is this going to last? Parked 767's for 3 days?

Say what? A three day layover for the plane? I don't see that. It is daily from SLC and there is a 763ER from ATL that is five days a week.(nonstop flight from ATL is except Tues and Weds) There is one three day layover for crews that come in from ATL on Mondays, and leave Thursdays. The plane flies back to ATL on Monday night. It doesn't stay in OGG.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CFIT]

baconstrip!!! lmao

GL just admit that beyond all your scope on a rope arguing that DFW has and will have more potential than SLC. ATL is going to turn into DFW if DL doesn't watch the clock. VAluetran is just as sneaky as SWA. DL has already been canceling flights due to lack of PAX out of SLC. This is not good. OGG for example is a 3 day layover. How long is this going to last? Parked 767's for 3 days?

Generalsukfest, looks like the tide is against you.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

chalk em.

Say what? A three day layover for the plane? I don't see that. It is daily from SLC and there is a 763ER from ATL that is five days a week.(nonstop flight from ATL is except Tues and Weds) There is one three day layover for crews that come in from ATL on Mondays, and leave Thursdays. The plane flies back to ATL on Monday night. It doesn't stay in OGG.

Bye Bye--General Lee

When DL added SLC_OGG it was a daily departure.
They have now added SLC-KOA.
Don't get me wrong, if the planes are half full then at least the non-revs can get some sun and then DL might break even if first class sells out and they can even tanker some cheap fuel from SLC.
We just don't like to see planes parked in SLC. There are at least a handful there everyday.

 

[General Lee]

When DL added SLC_OGG it was a daily departure.
They have now added SLC-KOA.
Don't get me wrong, if the planes are half full then at least the non-revs can get some sun and then DL might break even if first class sells out and they can even tanker some cheap fuel from SLC.
We just don't like to see planes parked in SLC. There are at least a handful there everyday.

All of our bases have some planes parked out by the hangers. You should see ATL. They are rotated out of service to comply with mandatory checks, and some of them are being prepared to go back to the lessors. As of right now 90% of the leases have been renegotiated at better lease rates than before. The other 10% are still being worked on. Some of the planes that sit out are also being prepared for NFL and NCAA charters. We fly a lot of those to the bowl games and other events. On the weekends we fly many charters for the Military.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

No, you're right, there weren't too many profitable years(maybe a couple quarters??). But, at the time, we were making cash hand over fist in other places, so we could subsidise that DFW operation. Not anymore. We are now focusing on areas that could produce profits--like more INTL and beefing up our ATL hub. Now that Indy Air is gone (sorry to their employees), the yeilds can only go up on the East Coast. $29 one way from IAD to ATL was crazy. Getting rid of some CRJ 50s would help too, and I am sure there will some future agreement to replace those with more 70 seaters.


Bye Bye--General Lee

WTF!!! GL finally admitting that it wasn't the RJs that killed DFW! Read past posts where he blames it all on RJs. Guess he'll do the same with CVG when it closes! You funny man General! :laugh: