SLC ASA pilots... tell us what Jerry has to say

[~~~^~~~]

This is what is so BS about this job... We have guys that stay up at night and pray they get the COEX flying without even thinking that it's going to put people on the street. And it's not just COEX flying for that matter either. Any flying that's been hijacked has gone from a place where QOL, contract and pay were okay to a place where those things were (in comparison) low(er). I think that guys should stand up and say "I'll only take the COEX flying if I get the same pay and contract the COEX guys got for the flying." Will that happen? No chance, why? Because people show up for class at MESA and *************************s and SkyWest guys "hope" they get AirWhisky's United flying (past tense) and TSA guys "hope" they get Eagle flying.

This is the entire reason that ALPA National has control and must sign our contracts for the deal to be in effect. ALPA National has completely failed in this duty. ALPA National has an obligation to stop predatory MEC's from bidding other members' flying. Unfortunately the most predatory MEC's are the Delta and Northwest groups which are the base of power for the current ALPA leadership. Check out NStar and Jets for Jobs proposals at Northwest right now for examples. At Delta we have or fortunate to have the RJDC providing a defense against acts of ALPA piracy.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

HA, can you say.....1st round playof loss!
737

Well, we are the home of SO SO DEF records. Word!

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

:angryfireYeah...well we will see just how much their "bottom line" grows when we PARK 160 plus airplanes! Strike Vote NOW!!
JA is about to have a run in with a pilot group that HAS a pair!

Oh Please...you are one of those people that I am ashamed work for the same company! I believe that you would walk across any picket line just to fly airplanes!

I personally am proud of having people like Ohplease here. He is a reasonable person unlike you and the "burn the place down" crowd. Progress was made this week in MCO. I guess some of you guys just can't stand good news.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Yes, give them to your kids Jerry! Maybe Delta pilots will fly 'em for what Jerry wants. No progress in negotiations this week either. When Jerry shows up in the crew lounge in ATL it'll be the same gloom & doom show. And a bunch of our pilots will fall for the 'sky's falling' performance. Tehy pulled this same crap with the ATRs years ago. Unfortunately, our MEC at the time bought into it.

Hoser

Hoser quit putting out false information. I would expect better from a P2P member. Where do you get "no progress" from? Have you even read the MEC emails? Here it is:


1. CNC Update from Orlando, Florida

Pilot contract negotiations continued Thursday in Orlando. Our CNC members submitted a package counter proposal for Sections 14 - Sick Leave, 7 - Vacation, 8 - Deadhead and 5 - Traveling Expenses.

The two sides came to tentative agreement (T/A) on Section 11 - Training. More work was done in Section 26 - General, in which ALPA and management came closer to a workable commute policy. You can read the attached CNC Session Briefing for a more detailed explanation of the day's events.

Negotiations will continue Friday.

Does that sound like "no progress"? I'm dissapointed in you.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

If you want the furloughs back, DCI getting more 70 seaters ain't gonna help. I am really starting to believe that these RJs are becoming a union busting tactic. It goes like this: Management says they need more RJs in order to be competetive and have frequency. More RJs means no growth at mainline. Then those said RJs are dangled like a carrot in front of several regional pilot groups and the lowest bid wins. Its a win-win for management. No new pilots at mainline rates and pilots willing to take concessions for growth at the regional level. The way I see it, its a form of union busting. In the meantime, mgmt takes their bonus and runs.

The RJ wouldn't be a "union buster" if ALPA had just treated it as another aircraft instead of originally treating it as just a "regional" aircraft. ALPA helped create this "union buster". I'm not interested in helping out the furloughees by giving up our growth here at ASA. ALPA and DALPA did this to themselves - not my problem. Keep the 70s here and just say no to Jets4Jobs!

 

[HoserASA]

Hoser quit putting out false information. I would expect better from a P2P member. Where do you get "no progress" from? Have you even read the MEC emails? Here it is:


1. CNC Update from Orlando, Florida

Pilot contract negotiations continued Thursday in Orlando. Our CNC members submitted a package counter proposal for Sections 14 - Sick Leave, 7 - Vacation, 8 - Deadhead and 5 - Traveling Expenses.

The two sides came to tentative agreement (T/A) on Section 11 - Training. More work was done in Section 26 - General, in which ALPA and management came closer to a workable commute policy. You can read the attached CNC Session Briefing for a more detailed explanation of the day's events.

Negotiations will continue Friday.

Does that sound like "no progress"? I'm dissapointed in you.

Well, ok, some progress has been made, but nothing earth-shattering. Lots of counter proposals flying around, TA on training which was pretty tight already, but a lousy proposal from the company on the commuter policy. So, just read what you wrote above and you'll see it wasn't what one would call a great week of negotiations.

Plus, Jerry stated in SLC that we would get 'no mo' 70s unless the rate was cut. Know why? Because the grand plan is to eventually have a greater fleet of 70s, and above once GENERAL LEE signs off on it (had to say that GL). It won't be long before they come after the 50 rates either.

Believe what you like Voice, it's OK by me. I'm sorta like those folks from Missouri, "show me", and I haven't seen much at all. But, we'll see.

Hoser

 

[180ToTheMarker]

The RJ wouldn't be a "union buster" if ALPA had just treated it as another aircraft instead of originally treating it as just a "regional" aircraft.

I can agree with you there...ALPA should have NEVER allowed jets of any size to go to a regional partner.

 

[Flying Ninja]

How does this affect ASA starting up new classes? Any news on this front?

 

[Plug]

No new classes until we get a fleet plan and no fleet plan until we get a new contract.

 

[Flying Ninja]

No new classes until we get a fleet plan and no fleet plan until we get a new contract.

So does this mean the rumors of April classes is a bit of a stretch? When do you think classes would start (I know I'm asking you to speculate here.) Thanks!

 

[79%N1]

If those are indeed true facts, there may not be another class at ASA for a long time! I know that some say progress has been made, but not really. It is progress on small issues that should have been settled looooong ago! Still nothing on scheduling and compensation. How long is that going to take. Add that to the fact that JA says no contract without 700 concessions, well, it may take some battles. My opinion, nothing gets done until we are released, and then at 11:59 on day 29 of the cooling off period. Its up to the mediator.

 

[Flying Ninja]

So best case scenario and worse case scenario time line for classes would be?

 

[Texx]

So best case scenario and worse case scenario time line for classes would be?

Buddy, give it a break! The guys on this board do not know anything more as they have already stated. If you have a question, please feel free to call "Danny, I Can't Fly, Robertson" at 404-766-1400.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Today I heard rumors of a new hire class. Enough people are bailing out of ASA that they are thinking of running a class to deal with attrition. So joy, you could sit on the bottom of a stagnant seniority list. Or better, you could get trained, then furloughed as the ATR's go away in July while the new 700's go to SkyWest's preferred carrier, er um, I think that is SkyWest.

Besides, I don't think ALPA pays strike benefits to apprentice members, so what is the point?

 

[Texx]

Today I heard rumors of a new hire class. Enough people are bailing out of ASA that they are thinking of running a class to deal with attrition. So joy, you could sit on the bottom of a stagnant seniority list. Or better, you could get trained, then furloughed as the ATR's go away in July while the new 700's go to SkyWest's preferred carrier, er um, I think that would be SkyWest....

Besides, I don't think ALPA pays strike benefits to apprentice members, so what is the point?

Ah the rumor mill.

I heard.......

Bob Dillon was offered a job as VP of FLT OPS,
Jerry has found BLs replacement, it Ed Paquette,
George and John are going to buy CMR after the cuts start,
Danny Robertson will be the VP of FLT OPS at CMR,
and Chromer still wants to be your buddy!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Fins and Texx,

Maybe, ALPA should act more like the AMA (American Medical Association). They aren't a "true union", but they do advocate for medical standards that are far tougher than 11 months and a fat checking account, which will get you a job as a 121 pilot. How about tougher standards for 121 pilots??? Nahh...that would require ALPA to start thinking outside the box....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ah the rumor mill.

I heard.......

Bob Dillon was offered a job as VP of FLT OPS,
Jerry has found BLs replacement, it Ed Paquette,
George and John are going to buy CMR after the cuts start,
Danny Robertson will be the VP of FLT OPS at CMR,
and Chromer still wants to be your buddy!

Bob Dillon is a good guy and was a staunch supporter in the battle of '98
Ed Paquette would be a good replacement for BL
CHQ is going to buy CMR... so much for "industry leading contracts"...
DR won't do much more than he currently is... and that is good...
Chromer is my buddy, and you could do worse with buddies....

 

[Texx]

Fins and Texx,

Maybe, ALPA should act more like the AMA (American Medical Association). They aren't a "true union", but they do advocate for medical standards that are far tougher than 11 months and a fat checking account, which will get you a job as a 121 pilot. How about tougher standards for 121 pilots??? Nahh...that would require ALPA to start thinking outside the box....

Hey John,

Why do you always have to bring us down and start talking about something totally unrelated. Fins and I are trying to make this fun again! What does the AMA have to do with Jerry talking in SLC? Maybe you could start a new thread to talk about that under the "medical" section.

 

[Texx]

and you could do worse with buddies....

No sense of humor John....


That is why your not my Buddy!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hey John,

Why do you always have to bring us down and start talking about something totally unrelated. Fins and I are trying to make this fun again! What does the AMA have to do with Jerry talking in SLC? Maybe you could start a new thread to talk about that under the "medical" section.

If you think it is "unrelated", then you are truly ignorant. How can you compare yourself to other professionals when you it takes less time to train a 121 pilot than it does to train any other "professional". Tell me Texx, what other career comands more money than a 121 pilot with only 11 months training. I'm on your side believe it or not, I just don't see our pathetic excuse for a union doing anything to help us.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

No sense of humor John....


That is why your not my Buddy!

I have a great sense of humor..... just not yours. I really don't want to be your buddy....maybe you can get a dog if you are looking for a buddy....

 

[Texx]

If you think it is "unrelated", then you are truly ignorant. How can you compare yourself to other professionals when you it takes less time to train a 121 pilot than it does to train any other "professional". Tell me Texx, what other career comands more money than a 121 pilot with only 11 months training. I'm on your side believe it or not, I just don't see our pathetic excuse for a union doing anything to help us.....

John you need to take your meds now. I think your blood pressure is elevated at this time but you can read about that under the "medical" section.

 

[JoeMerchant]

John you need to take your meds now. I think your blood pressure is elevated at this time but you can read about that under the "medical" section.

I guess you don't want to address the issue I raised. Not unexpected from you.... I'll just wait for the next ignorant personal attack..... Keep blindly following ALPA off the cliff....

 

["GO AROUND"]

If you think it is "unrelated", then you are truly ignorant. How can you compare yourself to other professionals when you it takes less time to train a 121 pilot than it does to train any other "professional". Tell me Texx, what other career comands more money than a 121 pilot with only 11 months training. I'm on your side believe it or not, I just don't see our pathetic excuse for a union doing anything to help us.....

Don't think for a momen that the AMA is any better than ALPA at saving their industry! Look at all the doctors that are quitting private practice cause they can't afford malpractice insurance. What is the AMA doing about that? Nothing. Cause they are not the end all be all to the medical profession. Neither is ALPA.

I am so tired of guys like you John that hold ALPA up to be the saving grace to the pilots they represent and bash it when DW doesn't come riding in on a white horse and fix everything for you. If that is what you think then no wonder you are so bitter. The word is nieve, look it up.

So I take it you are not going to run for sec. tresurer again?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Don't think for a momen that the AMA is any better than ALPA at saving their industry! Look at all the doctors that are quitting private practice cause they can't afford malpractice insurance. What is the AMA doing about that? Nothing. Cause they are not the end all be all to the medical profession. Neither is ALPA.

I am so tired of guys like you John that hold ALPA up to be the saving grace to the pilots they represent and bash it when DW doesn't come riding in on a white horse and fix everything for you. If that is what you think then no wonder you are so bitter. The word is nieve, look it up.

So I take it you are not going to run for sec. tresurer again?

Actually, the word is "naive". I'm very familiar with it - most ALPA true believers suffer from it.

I am also very familiar with the problems that doctors are facing as both my parents are/were doctors. I can tell you first hand that my "QOL" is better than either of my DR. parents was. My father was very jealous of my pilot job. However AMA did one thing much better than ALPA - It fought for tougher standards for doctors. If ALPA did the same for pilots, it would help.

I know DW won't ride in "white horse" to "fix everything". I'm just afraid he will ride in a black horse and harm us to benefit the favored DAL pilot who pays more towards his $500,000 salary.

Not bitter, just realistic to the BS ALPA is pushing.....

 

[jeroom]

By the way, when is the new contract due at ASA? and DAL fleet plan?

 

[goodto50meters]

I guess you don't want to address the issue I raised. Not unexpected from you.... I'll just wait for the next ignorant personal attack..... Keep blindly following ALPA off the cliff....

John,

Did you or your husband get a "Conditional Offer of a Chief Pilot Position" or something to tote management's line on this and the ALPA board?

You dont do it in the crew lounge anymore or at meetings either....did you get your little feelers hurt because 98% of this pilot group disagrees with you?

 

[goahead]

Stfu.

 

[Bizjet]

No sense of humor John....


That is why your not my Buddy!

have a great sense of humor..... just not yours. I really don't want to be your buddy....maybe you can get a dog if you are looking for a buddy....

Texx,

Why don't you take JoeMerchant's advice. I think he has spent a lot of time with dogs so you should listen to the voice of experience! He is also C. Smith's GOOD buddy. Do you think that C. Smith walks him on a leash? Maybe he gives Joe a bone??:laugh:

 

[JoeMerchant]

John,

Did you or your husband get a "Conditional Offer of a Chief Pilot Position" or something to tote management's line on this and the ALPA board?

You dont do it in the crew lounge anymore or at meetings either....did you get your little feelers hurt because 98% of this pilot group disagrees with you?

If 98% of the pilots disagree with me, then don't waste your time debating me. There are better things to do if nobody agrees with me. Having done this for a while, I would submit that probably 30% or so don't have an opinion one way or the other. About 300 CMR pilots didn't vote on the last concession TA. 10% of the NWA pilots didn't vote on the strike vote. The fact is, whether you want to admit it or not, 98% of ASA pilots couldn't name a single ALPA representative, much less agree with you or I, or care about what you or I say.

I do speak my mind in the crew lounge, and get very little disagreement. I don't go to meetings because the MEC doesn't want me to participate. No sense waisting my time. It's their agenda - they can do what they want.

No feelings hurt here - you have to have thick skin to do ALPA or RJDC work - not for the faint of heart.