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Bako Cap said:
I thought Canadair shut down the CRJ200 line and would only be buliding 700's and up.

Bako Cap,

I believe you're correct, however, there are a lot of them sitting around that used to be Indy Air's. It's pretty sad when you see them parked places, but every once in a while you'll stumble across a bunch. There were a bunch in CAE a while back, don't know if they're still there. Also, in MYR there are a ton of Dornier jets you could probably get real cheap. Very sad.

-Blucher:puke:
 
Bako Cap said:


I thought Canadair shut down the CRJ200 line and would only be buliding 700's and up.

They're GECAS planes. Owned by GE Capital. They used to by ACA/Fly-I planes and Comair planes. Now they're Desert Decorations
 
propjockey said:
Forget what I said earlier. The SkyWest fleet schedule is back up with no changes. May have just been a web glitch.

John, personally I think I'm better off at non-union SkyWest than you are at ALPA ASA. If you look at 70 pay in a vacuum, then of course I have to concede your point. However, if you look at the whole picture in the real world, (from what I have seen and heard, so I take it with a grain of salt), we're definitely better off.

How do you figure? We work for the same (very profitable) company and fly the same 70 seaters for a lot more money than you do? How did you not get hosed? If you had a real union, and not a mananagement-approved student council, you could have fought for a rate closer to ours.

We will not be taking a 70 seat pay cut. Period. It will be a abysmal failure if our MEC tries to float it.
 
John Pennekamp said:
How do you figure? We work for the same (very profitable) company and fly the same 70 seaters for a lot more money than you do? How did you not get hosed? If you had a real union, and not a mananagement-approved student council, you could have fought for a rate closer to ours.

We will not be taking a 70 seat pay cut. Period. It will be a abysmal failure if our MEC tries to float it.

I just looked at my YTD pay summary that has the performance reward on it and it works out that my pay is $91.48 per hour. For the same amount of years at ASA my pay would be $88 per hour (airlinepilotpay.com) if I could hold the 700. Plus to have the 2% percent loss so duanes manservant has a new car to drive, well....

And you want our work rules, right?

You probably can't understand this anyway so continue with your retoric.
 
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John Pennekamp said:
How do you figure? We work for the same (very profitable) company and fly the same 70 seaters for a lot more money than you do? How did you not get hosed? If you had a real union, and not a mananagement-approved student council, you could have fought for a rate closer to ours.

We will not be taking a 70 seat pay cut. Period. It will be a abysmal failure if our MEC tries to float it.


John,

(BTW love snorkeling at your park, have done so about 4x in past 6 years)

This is an honest question, so please answer if you can.

For $100 K of income, how much money per year is classified as Union Dues? Besides your annual percentage, are there any additional fees for strike funds, or furlough funds? Since I have never worked at a union airline or union business in the past, I am anxious to know ALL of the fees that are deducted on say $100 K income per year.
Thanks for answering this question.
It is not meant to flame, or start anything, just a Need to know kinda thing.

If there was a union vote today, I still dont know which way I would vote.
 
Drat!! I just spent an hour writing a lengthy (but very civil) response. When I clicked POST REPLY, it went to the hotel hi-speed terms-of-acceptance page and I lost everything!

I think my crowning thought was this:

ALPA whips pilots into an emotional frenzy of entitlement that causes them to do irrational things such as killing all the buffalo or clear cutting the forests. Sustainability does not seem to be a major concern.

And I wrote one long paragraph, the gist of which was this:

It's a bit of apples and oranges because your 70 pilots fly only the 70, whereas we fly both at a higher, blended rate. Your 50 rate averages something like $3-4/hr less than our 50 rate. A higher 70 rate at SkyWest would likely only benefit the very senior, and would likely result in a lower 50 rate more in line with ASA. (No, thank you). There's a lot of rhetoric about "brotherhood" and "unity" from the organizers. Horse hockey! If this were true, senior pilots would not want something for themselves which would cause harm to a larger population of junior pilots, most of whom just want to do their time and get out.

I hear our work rules are more lucrative. In the end, average W2's (the best comparitor I can think of) are probably higher at SkyWest than they are at ASA. When you say "join ALPA," my ears hear "come down to our level." Why would I want to do that?

There was a lot more, and I don't want to spend another hour, but let me end with this. I apologize for the selfishness and harshness, but this is reality and there's no way to sugar coat it.

I take a giant step back and look at the airline industry as a whole. I see one of the (rare) shining successes is SkyWest Airlines. It's one of the few in the country that is really healthy, and it's non-union. Many will argue that these facts are not correlated, but personally I believe this is NOT a coincidence. I believe that the dawn of ALPA at SkyWest will be the beginning of our descent into the same abyss that you're all clamoring to get out of. I'm not about to shut SkyWest down over a couple dollars per hour. It's not worth all the heartache and upheaval it would cause. If you want to shut down ASA, you go right ahead. Personally, I don't believe SkyWest, Inc. would have any qualms about pulling the plug if you guys strike. I think they'd shut the place down, send all the aircraft to SkyWest Airlines, and give preferential interviews to ASA pilots. I don't think many SkyWest pilots will feel very sorry for you if you put an end to your own job. Like it or not, SkyWest pilots stand only to gain from ASAs demise. Those who are unhappy with the details are the militant fringe at SkyWest, and they sound like a broken record. But we have it pretty good here when you step back and look at the whole picture. I wish everything was daisies, puppies, and sunshine at ASA, but it's not. SkyWest joining ALPA is not going to change that. I honestly don't think you'd be any worse off now if you all dumped ALPA and kept the 2% dues as a pay increase. ASAs struggle is not my struggle, and I don't want to be drawn into it.
 
YES!!! I spent 6 years at Eagle and ALPA and they did nothing for me!! The day Skywest is ALPA is going to be a sad day. We have it so good now! Look around...what as ALPA done for ASA/CMR/Mesaba/MESA/Eagle/COEX..ect not much lately!!
 
John Pennekamp said:
How do you figure? We work for the same (very profitable) company and fly the same 70 seaters for a lot more money than you do? How did you not get hosed? If you had a real union, and not a mananagement-approved student council, you could have fought for a rate closer to ours.

We will not be taking a 70 seat pay cut. Period. It will be a abysmal failure if our MEC tries to float it.


I'll start of by saying pilots at ASA absolutely shouldn't take a paycut on the 70, and should have an even higher rate on the future 76 seaters. However, your view on SkyWest pay may be a little off. I'm at the seven year point on the scale which is 67.27, but with our ever shrinking performance rewards bonus actually works out to 73.30 hr. I primarily fly the 50, and have only flown the 70 about 25 hours this year. I'm not positive on the seven year ASA rates but I believe there around $72 and $65. I doubt I'd hold 70 Captain either. With our work rules I'd take our current package over yours.
 
amcnd said:
Look around...what as ALPA done for ASA/CMR/Mesaba/MESA/Eagle/COEX..ect not much lately!!

ALPA got COEX industry-leading W2s; ALPA has no control over what CAL does with 69 airplanes. ALPA also can't control Mesaba losing airplanes because of NWA's bankruptcy. And lets not forget, any airline that has taken concessions has had those concessions voted in by the pilot group.

ALPA is only as strong as each pilot group and individual MEC. With ineffectual leadership at National, that makes each airline's elected leadership and pilot group unity even more important...
 
BoilerUP said:
ALPA is only as strong as each pilot group and individual MEC.

Yet another track on the broken record. I don't know if you're working for SkyWest, but why would anyone think the SkyWest MEC would be any more effective than any other ALPA Regional MEC? It's a utopian fantasy to think that we can "be strong" while other MECs are falling like dominoes. With 16 domiciles for 2100 pilots, SkyWest is one of the most fractured pilot groups in the country. Pilots in California and Salt Lake City might as well be working for different airlines, and the twain shall never meet. What's important to a senior Brasilia captain in Palm Springs is very different than what's important to a junior RJ FO in ORD.

Regarding the COEX contract: great! Is it sustainable? We shall see. In the current environment, it probably just makes them more of a target for concessions. Continental was going to shift their eggs into multiple baskets regardless of COEX costs. They're not dumb enough to repeat the Comair strike debacle.
 
SkyWest Airlines dragging down SkyWest Inc. profitability?

I'm kind of surprised no ASA people have made a point of this fact yet. Apparently, SkyWest Airlines profit margin was lower than the SkyWest Inc. profit margin this quarter. Anyone care to comment?
 
Do you have the figures? Nothing has been announced at ASA for the breakdown.

Has Skywest announced what the profit sharing percentage is for Skywest employees yet? It will be interesting to compare that to what ASA pays our non-contract fellow "team members! They are supposed to hear this week

Legal Alien
ASA CR2 CAP
 
First Quarter 2006 - Dec 16th-March 15th (Not sure of exact dates but these are close.
SkyWest Inc. - 4.66%
SkyWest Airlines - 4.6%

Take your total earnings for that period and you would get 4.6% of that for the reward plus operational performance rewards of $175 for this quarter, minus taxes of course.

Operational performance rewards are ontop of Financial rewards and are calculated on on-time, completion, customer satisfaction, and baggage handling.

ex.
$20000 in earnigs for the quarter x .046 = $920
+
$175
=
$1095 - taxes
 
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Sweet, more planes! Maybe I should make a downward move.

Oh wait, starting pay is still, what...

19000 per Year
 
The general atmosphere seems to be non union...
I think despite the bad things here, everyone sees outside and finds it still better to be non-union around here afterall.

If ALPA would have played its cards better these last couple of years, there might have been more support.

Then again... would Skywest be as strong as it is now if ALPA was voted in last couple of years? Would the pilots have a better/worse QOL and/or pay?

Judging from the other carriers experience, I think NO is the answer to both questions.

This is my opinion.
 
difete said:
The general atmosphere seems to be non union...
I think despite the bad things here, everyone sees outside and finds it still better to be non-union around here afterall.

If ALPA would have played its cards better these last couple of years, there might have been more support.

Then again... would Skywest be as strong as it is now if ALPA was voted in last couple of years? Would the pilots have a better/worse QOL and/or pay?

Judging from the other carriers experience, I think NO is the answer to both questions.

This is my opinion.





What's "Shinny turboprop syndrome"? Most of ours aren't all that shiny, and none are shinny!
 

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