SkyWest Union vote

[sstearns2]

How many of those 66,000 ALPA members voted to be part of ALPA? How many had no choice in the matter?

What's the story with TWA's in-house union?

Scott

 

[Obi-Wan]

How many of those 66,000 ALPA members voted to be part of ALPA? How many had no choice in the matter?

Only the ones who were non ALPA and wanted to be a part of ALPA. The rest did know about ALPA representing the pilots of the company that they were applying at and although they did not have a choice of choosing to be a union member, they had a choice of other non union/ALPA companies. eg. Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, Skywest, Horizon, UPS, FEDEx( Till last year), and many other cargo and passenger airlines as well as corporate outfits. Maybe they did not have previous experience with ALPA, but if polled today I bet you the majority would not have it any other way. I have heard the "not here not now" argument many times before. You guys have nothing to lose by way of voting in an inhouse union. It just gives you a localized more concentrated voice. if you dont like the union you can always vote them out later, but I strongly doubt that.

What's the story with TWA's in-house union?

Basically they became MGTs bitches. if you want more info read flying the line and flying the line II. if you have a hard time finding the books call ALPA national, its a great educational tool.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I echo MONKEY's sentiments and also add that this analogy simply does not make any sense.

Maybe I’m just a dumb pilot, but an in house union does not mean that the company runs it... simply means an independent union funded by and run by it's own members within the company. If you came to another conclusion Rez, maybe you are the one that needs to get informed. An argument could be made however that your example is what we have now... I don't agree entirely, but I could see how you could get there.

I don't think that 66,000 pilots are stupid. If you work for UAL, DAL or the like, it's necessary and makes sense. But when your livelihood is in direct contrast with other groups that your union may serve... well that leaves you at a disadvantage. But that's neither here nor there, and I am sorry if I have made this a pro/anti union post.

My point is that until you get your SkyWest seniority number, and have been here long enough to get away from the Kool Aid drinkers... you can't tell me what SkyWest pilots should or should not do. It is our decision, and only we know what's best. I would never tell you or your pilot groups what you should do!

In house union was the wrong term. An in house union like FedExs ol' FPA, Frontier's or Airtrans gig is not what I meant. Like the TWA deal in the waaay early days, the company set up a "union" but it payrolled it with company money. Management was the supervisor of the union reps.... ie.. your prosecutor serving as your defense atty. If you were brought up on charges by the chief pilot, he would direct your rep....what's the point?

ALPA's biggest problem is the regional/major airline issue. And it is valid. However, it isn't a black and white issue, rather complex. Unity is our strength, I think splitting up ALPA isn't good, but we still have to find a way to represent everyone. I hope we can solve the problems from within and not pull an APA defection on the regional level.

Despite the regional/major issue being part of a national union has many benefits. And that is where your education comes in. Amazon has the books and if you aren't willing to spend the money then you aren't really serious, are you?

Finally, my disclaimer. ALPA isn't a silver bullet. It won't solve all your problems and will bring new ones. Skywest needs their own respresentation, whether it is in house, ALPA, IBT...just not the company itself.

Something most ALPA pilots don't realize is..they themselves as the membership are the highest authority. They direct their LEC reps, who direct the MEC and the BOD, the MEC directs the EBOD and Duane.

In otherwords it is what you make it. If you want a good ol boys network on your property then pay your dues and do nothing. If you want a professional organization that you can find pride, intergrity, comaradiere and respect, then volunteer, and hold your elected reps accountable. It sounds easier said than done and that is right. But if you want something done right ..then....aw you know what I mean.

Once again, get informed and choose what is best for you.


from another source.....

Why union?

As an employee for the company you should ask yourself why are you working here? Is your primary purpose to serve yourself or the company? In reality most of us work for ourselves. We need income to provide for ourselves and our families. We are actually a small business entity providing a service for our companies. We could be seen as contractors. We have invested tremendous amounts of time, energy and money to simply apply for employment. Once we are established, especially with the purchase of a house and having children our job security is critical. Protecting your job has never become more important.

It is human nature to deny a problem and accept responsibility. It is also human nature to expect results without understanding the complications faced in achieving those results.
Such is the management style of some chief pilot office. For some managers it is easier and cheaper to terminate pilots who make mistakes than acknowledge responsibilities on their own part.

After spending so much time and energy to be an airline pilot can you afford to lose your job because you were given a stacked deck?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is some info from FedEx when they were debating coming back to ALPA. Eventually, they voted 96% in favor of ALPA coming back. (confirm?). While FedEx is considered a major with a defined benefit plan (i.e. old school) and Skywest is different, I want to bring a perspective and opinion only. My intent is to provoke thought and education, although I'm sure some of you will switch out regular Jet-A1 for SV JP-4 (that's super volitile) in your flame throwers....

Again, ALPA may not be the answer for Skywest....


ALPA Bashing Is Nauseating Me

I’m getting tired of hearing people whine about how ALPA has, in the past, or is now screwing them! One of the latest issues being brought up is how the Eastern pilots were not afforded the chance to vote by “secret ballot” on whether to honor the IAM’s picket line in 1989. Give me a break. Is the writer insinuating that the Eastern pilots didn’t really want to go out? I would hope not. Over 90% joined the IAM’s strike. Actually, the way I recall, it was ALPA national and the Eastern MEC Chairman Jack Bavis that wanted the Eastern pilots to go back to work, after five months of walking the picket line. But they honored the wishes of one of the most motivated pilot groups we’ll ever see, and didn’t call off their sympathy strike. I have never been more proud of a group of pilots, and I was honored to pay my assessments for their strike benefits. I think the writer’s saying that, even though the courts ruled that ALPA did, in fact, legally follow their own policies, neither he, nor the scabs that brought that particular lawsuit to the courts, think so. Okay. That’s their opinion.

Here’s one of mine…I wish that I and all the “real” Eastern pilots were still flying for Eastern (I left in 1987). I wish all the Emery pilots were still flying for Emery. I wish that all the Braniff, Pan-Am, Frontier, and whatever other now-defunct ALPA-represented airlines someone wanted to fly for, were still there. But they’re not. And ALPA didn’t cause that!! Poor management did, period!
Does anyone think that those airlines would still be flying today if they had just not joined ALPA? Would an in-house union have somehow saved these companies? I’ve heard people say “ALPA is a captain’s union, look what’s happening to the junior guys at Delta.” Huh? Do people really think that an in-house union Captain will give up some of his pay to keep a junior guy from getting furloughed? Yeah, right. Do Eastern pilots really think that an in-house union would have got them transferred to Delta with their assets? Wrong! Hey, who pays the bills for the in-house union’s lawyers and representatives if all of the members are on strike, furloughed, or just unemployed? I got a check for a grievance from the Eastern bankruptcy court, four years after Eastern stopped operating. Gee, if we’d been an in-house union, who would have paid four years’ worth of lawyer’s fees to be my representative in the bankruptcy court?

But, you know what? Who cares? I don’t ever seem to find the naysayers giving us links to letters from employed Delta, United, or Northwest pilots complaining about their contracts. Seems like you only hear that from the folks that are down, and looking for someone to blame. It’s hard not to be bitter when your dreams seem to be going up in smoke. But, how does any of that relate to our predicament? I don’t think any of us believe FedEx is going bankrupt in the near future. And, ALPA seems to do a pretty good job of representing pilots who work for companies that are still in business. That is, as long as those same pilots can stand together, as one. So, let’s discuss what the best option is for our situation.

ALPA will just be the name on our toolbox; we are still going to be the union. I want the best; I want ALPA.

Just My Opinion,
Capt. Tom L.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How many of those 66,000 ALPA members voted to be part of ALPA? How many had no choice in the matter?

Scott

There is always choice.

Don't like ALPA? Resign your membership ( I know, I know..you still have to pay dues... ) organize a drive to oust ALPA like American, Continental and FedEx did, or don't apply to ALPA properites.

So simple!