Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

SKYWEST TO OBTAIN 737's from UAL?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Lrjtcaptain

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Posts
927
Alrighty, I know this might stir up some heat but I heard from a Skywest EMB120 F.O. that if UAL goes down, that Skywest is going to buy the 737's from UAL and take over most of their west coast routes. Now being non union, there can't be too many things that can stand in the way here but is this a possibility or pilots just running their mouths?
 
There have been other threads on this site about those kind of rumors. Do a search. I guess if you are a United Express carrier; thinking about a Plan B would be prudent.
 
B-737 Captain position at $50/hour.

Welcome to the future.
 
If I read the Delta contract with Skywest correctly, (I say again, IF) the first time an airplane with more than 70 seats hits the property, they can chop off the contract. I would hope so. That would mean they would have a whole lot of pilots and airplanes doing nothing.
Just my 2cents....
 
This subject has been thuroughly beaten to death in many threads. Do a search. Rumors are flying about anything and everything right now. Bottom line is that if SkyWest gets anything bigger than 70 seats they loose DL. Doesen't sound like a good deal to me.

--03M
 
That is interesting. I don't expect many of the United haters on this Board to believe it yet, but most of the analysts are finally saying United has turned the corner. Read the Wall Street Journal from May 5 or Denver Post from May 6. Unless we have a major terrorist incident very soon, I wouldn't start brushing up on 737 systems.
 
I believe Delta management has an agreement/contract with its pilots that says it (Delta) will not contract with any carriers that flys equipment with more than 70 seats. Even if the 70+ seaters are totally unrelated to the Delta operation (hence the Freedom Air manuver). If management wants to keep their pilots happy, they won't contract with any carriers that have 70+ seaters. If they did, the pilots could file a greviance and then strike if it was not settled to their (pilots) satisfaction.

strega7
 
If Skywest got 73's they would lose Delta but I guess the plan would be to feed themselves then. Having said that, I hope UAL pulls through. It would suck to see that many people (not just pilots) out on the street!
 
skykid said:
That is interesting. I don't expect many of the United haters on this Board to believe it yet, but most of the analysts are finally saying United has turned the corner. [/i]


You have GOT to be kidding. You don't have to be a UAL "hater" to realize that the hallmark of UAL for the past ten years has been that they are completely out of touch with reality.

They don;t have a rat's ass chance in hell of making their financial targets . . . . . but, hey, good luck.

http://www.ridiculopathy.com/stock/ual_bankruptcy.jpg
 
Last edited:
ATR-DRIVR said:
If I read the Delta contract with Skywest correctly, (I say again, IF) the first time an airplane with more than 70 seats hits the property, they can chop off the contract. I would hope so. That would mean they would have a whole lot of pilots and airplanes doing nothing.
Just my 2cents....

I'm curious. Have you actually read the contract between Delta, Inc. and Skywest, Inc.? If so, has Skywest agreed to consent to and honor the terms of the PWA contract between Delta and ALPA? Frankly, I doubt that.

I don't really believe that Skywest will operate 737's in the near term. However, if they decide to do so you'll probably find out in a hurry that the only people that believe the Delta PWA can really prevent that (if the airplanes are NOT operated for Delta) fly desks in Herndon, VA and/or play union politics in Atlanta. Delta (the Company) isn't likely, IMO, to risk huge lawsuits by canceling its contract with SKYW in an effort to enforce a contract with its pilots, to which Skywest never agreed.

Unless you've physically read the actual contract between SKYW/DAL and know that Skywest has agreed to be bound by the Delta PWA, I wouldn't bet too many marbles on that one.

Some unions seem to believe they can simply write whatever they want in a scope clause and automatically enforce it against companies with whom they have not contract at all. That's wishful thinking.
 
Rumor mill

Just thought I'd add to the rumor mill... I heard that our pilot reps agreed to payscales for airplanes in the 737 capasity range and the pay is Southwest minus 20%. Nothing offical yet though.

Scott
 
surplus1 said:
I'm curious. Have you actually read the contract between Delta, Inc. and Skywest, Inc.? If so, has Skywest agreed to consent to and honor the terms of the PWA contract between Delta and ALPA? Frankly, I doubt that.

I don't really believe that Skywest will operate 737's in the near term. However, if they decide to do so you'll probably find out in a hurry that the only people that believe the Delta PWA can really prevent that (if the airplanes are NOT operated for Delta) fly desks in Herndon, VA and/or play union politics in Atlanta. Delta (the Company) isn't likely, IMO, to risk huge lawsuits by canceling its contract with SKYW in an effort to enforce a contract with its pilots, to which Skywest never agreed.

Unless you've physically read the actual contract between SKYW/DAL and know that Skywest has agreed to be bound by the Delta PWA, I wouldn't bet too many marbles on that one.

Some unions seem to believe they can simply write whatever they want in a scope clause and automatically enforce it against companies with whom they have not contract at all. That's wishful thinking.

Have you read the contract? I think not. Funny thing about contracts between employers and unions--they ARE enforceable. You are really out there, S. I think a vacation may be in order.
 
surplus1 said:
I'm curious. Have you actually read the contract between Delta, Inc. and Skywest, Inc.? If so, has Skywest agreed to consent to and honor the terms of the PWA contract between Delta and ALPA? Frankly, I doubt that.

I don't really believe that Skywest will operate 737's in the near term. However, if they decide to do so you'll probably find out in a hurry that the only people that believe the Delta PWA can really prevent that (if the airplanes are NOT operated for Delta) fly desks in Herndon, VA and/or play union politics in Atlanta. Delta (the Company) isn't likely, IMO, to risk huge lawsuits by canceling its contract with SKYW in an effort to enforce a contract with its pilots, to which Skywest never agreed.

Unless you've physically read the actual contract between SKYW/DAL and know that Skywest has agreed to be bound by the Delta PWA, I wouldn't bet too many marbles on that one.

Some unions seem to believe they can simply write whatever they want in a scope clause and automatically enforce it against companies with whom they have not contract at all. That's wishful thinking.

It really seems you have no clue, it is enforceable.

Just because the no furlough clause did not "hold up" in most peoples eyes.....the rest of the contract is still worth the paper its written on. If you really think Delta Inc could get away with something over 70 seats don't you think they would have done so already?!?!

I wish Skywest all the luck in the world and hope they are flying the concorde soon, just more for the us in DFW. I wouldn't mind upgrading before the end of time.

Bottom line, if they want to keep Delta flying.....it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!:D
 
csmith said:
Have you read the contract? I think not. Funny thing about contracts between employers and unions--they ARE enforceable. You are really out there, S. I think a vacation may be in order.

I have NOT read Skywest's contract with Delta and I said so. I don't think you have either. Have you?

I've have read ALPA's (PWA) contract with Delta. I agree that your contract with Delta is enforceable against Delta. It is not enforceable against Skywest as long as Skywest has not agreed, with Delta, before or after the fact, to recognize your PWA. Two parties cannot make a contract enforceable against a third party without the consent of the third party. Don't take my word for it, ask your lawyer. The principle is not rocket science.

Perhaps you would care to identify by Section and paragraph the specific part of your PWA that you believe would prevent SKYW from operating 737's in its own behalf and independent of any relationship with Delta Air Lines, Inc.

Skywest may not want to make waves with Delta. However, if Skywest chooses to operate an aircraft, independent of the "Delta Connection", in its own right, I believe the only remedy that Delta has is to cancel its contract with Skywest. The terms of the cancellation will be governed by the contract between Delta and Skywest and NOT by the Delta PWA.

IF Delta's only reason for cancellation of its contract with Skywest is Delta's desire to comply with its separate contract with ALPA, Skywest could have cause for an action against Delta. That could be tied up in court for years and meanwhile Skywest will continue to operate.

In addition, another key is just who the parties are in the Delta/Skywest contract. Is it between Delta Air Lines, Inc and Skywest, Inc? Is it between Delta and Skywest Holdings, Inc.? Is it with DCI, Inc.? Do you know (I don't) specifically?

The USAirways PWA was allegedly a lot "tighter" than yours, but it sure didn't stop Ornstein from createing Freedom to circumvent it, did it?

It is not my opinions that you need to think about csmith, it's the legal technicalities of the applicable contracts. Like it or not, most "scope dikes" are legal sieves and managements have been running water through the holes for a long time. That yours is the sole impenetrable dam is little more than a figment of your imagination.

The idea that your PWA can prevent an independent corporation, which has never agreed to any part of it, from conducting its business is ludicrous. The contract we all need to read, which is not a contract "between employers and unions", is the one between Delta and Skywest, not the Delta PWA. I doubt that any of us has read that contract. If that is the case, our opinions as to how it may apply are all hypothetical.
 
This is just like all that bravado about SKW not being able to operate as United Express into SLC or they would "surely loose the DL contract" Well they have over 10 flights per day to DEN/SFO/LAX. Oh yeah, and they still fly over 100 flights out of SLC for DL.
 
SSDD,

Actually, it is not like that at all. This is a contractual issue. The other was not.

(For the record, I was not one of those saying the united express stuff.)
 

Latest resources

Back
Top