Skywest Sues Delta...

[Sedona16]

Whats that saying about biting the hand that feeds you? You might win one battle but start losing many others.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080201/laf100.html?.v=3

 

[johnsonrod]

Whats that saying about biting the hand that feeds you? You might win one battle but start losing many others.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080201/laf100.html?.v=3

Yeah, Skywest knows that it will be squeezed in any merger scenario. Either they lose feed or they compete in another bidding war and that reduces its margin. Let the consolidation game begin...

 

[PositionandHold]

Whats that saying about biting the hand that feeds you?

What are they going to do, get fed up and have their own pilots fly the planes for mainline wages?

 

[Sedona16]

What are they going to do, get fed up and have their own pilots fly the planes for mainline wages?

Thanks to the likes of SkyWest (ie 50 seat pay for up to 99 seat rates) Delta pilots had no choice to match the rates in place. That said, Delta could now have its Pilots fly these planes for a similar cost. Delta already handles ground ops. at many locations. They also purchased a number of RJ's last year. Are you saying Skywest has Delta helplessly over a barrel?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Thanks to the likes of SkyWest (ie 50 seat pay for up to 99 seat rates) Delta pilots had no choice to match the rates in place. That said, Delta could now have its Pilots fly these planes for a similar cost.

Does Delta have 50-99 seat aircraft? Why did Delta undercut ASA and CMR to fly those aircraft?
Pot meet kettle.....

Good luck getting financing for mainline pilots to fly RJs at the mainline....

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Does Delta have 50-99 seat aircraft? Why did Delta undercut ASA and CMR to fly those aircraft?

Good question.

 

[Sedona16]

Does Delta have 50-99 seat aircraft? Why did Delta undercut ASA and CMR to fly those aircraft?
Pot meet kettle.....

Good luck getting financing for mainline pilots to fly RJs at the mainline....

http://www.aviationnews.eu/?p=725

Toronto, February 08, 2007
Bombardier Aerospace announced today that Atlanta, Georgia-based Delta Air Lines has placed a firm order for 30 Bombardier CRJ900 regional jets and has taken options on an additional 30 CRJ900 aircraft (60 total). The approval for this contract was granted by the United States Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York.
The contract value for the 30 firm ordered aircraft, based on CRJ900 aircraft list price, is approximately $1.1 billion US. If all options are exercised, the value of the contract could rise to $2.3 billion US.

“The acquisition of these aircraft will help Delta meet its network and operational needs for 2007 and 2008, allowing us to continue providing convenient service to the places where customers most want to travel,” said Shawn Anderson, Delta’s Vice-President of Delta Connection. “The fit with our fleet, timing of delivery and ownership economics made the Bombardier CRJ900 aircraft the best overall solution to meet our needs.”

 

[JoeMerchant]

As I said....good luck getting financing for RJs to be flown at mainline by mainline pilots....

Now, why did Delta undercut ASA and CMR for the large RJ segment......

 

[DrewBlows]

As I said....good luck getting financing for RJs to be flown at mainline by mainline pilots....

Now, why did Delta undercut ASA and CMR for the large RJ segment......

Why wouldn't Delta be able to finance RJs to be flow at mainline? Because they cost too much?

Even Delta's undercut rates pay (cost?) more than ASA or Comair when you take into account health care and retirement benefits.

I'd rather be making regional wages at Delta.

 

[Sedona16]

As I said....good luck getting financing for RJs to be flown at mainline by mainline pilots....

Now, why did Delta undercut ASA and CMR for the large RJ segment......

Apparently your reading comprehension is not very good. Delta already has the financing. I see no part of this deal predicated on "regional pilots" flying the airplanes. You can try to spin it that way though if you like.

Delta came out of BK less than six months ago. These Delta RJ rates were negotiated during this time, with a proverbial gun to the head. This happened much later than the damaging and short sighted vote by self serving Skywest pilots agreeing to 50 seat pay for up to 99 seats. Keep in mind JB and others since that time pointed to the Skywest rates which subsequently caused a downward trend of rates on small jets not just at the regionals but industry wide.

 

[Sedona16]

As I said....good luck getting financing for RJs to be flown at mainline by mainline pilots....

Now, why did Delta undercut ASA and CMR for the large RJ segment......

Apparently your reading comprehension is not too good. Delta already got the financing. I see no part of this deal predicated on "regional pilots" flying the airplanes. You can try to spin it though if you like.

Delta came out of BK less than six months ago. http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/onair/transcripts/070913c/ These Delta RJ rates were negotiated during this time, with a gun to the head. This happened much later than the damaging and short sighted vote by self serving Skywest pilots agreeing to fifty seat pay for up to 99 seats. Keep in mind JB and others since that time pointed to the Skywest rates lowering rates on small jets not just at the regionals but industry wide.

 

[goahead]

So if DAL decides to cancel flights on a particular day due to the wx to reduce flights in and out of ATL then shouldn't they be responsible for those pax having to spend the night in ATL or elsewhere? I totally understand why and agree with the reasoning behind it but as their contract carrier we do as told.
As far as the RJ debate I wish all the jet's were being flown by mainline.

 

[General Lee]

So if DAL decides to cancel flights on a particular day due to the wx to reduce flights in and out of ATL then shouldn't they be responsible for those pax having to spend the night in ATL or elsewhere? I totally understand why and agree with the reasoning behind it but as their contract carrier we do as told.
As far as the RJ debate I wish all the jet's were being flown by mainline.

Delta doesn't have to pay for WX CNX flights, only mx CNX or anything caused by Delta that made a passenger miss a flight. WX doesn't count.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[spongebob]

Wouldn't it be great if this was the beginning of a parting of the companies. With the price of fuel, it is only time before places like Missoula and Pueblo get one 737 a day instead of 4 barbie jets.

SB

 

[TAWS]

Yeah, Skywest knows that it will be squeezed in any merger scenario. Either they lose feed or they compete in another bidding war and that reduces its margin. Let the consolidation game begin...

The article has nothing to do with merger scenarios and the implications for feeder contracts. SkyWest has a disagreement over IROP payments and DAL kept a regular payment, to bend them over - until they saw it Delta's way, but SkyWest aren't idiots and will probably win this one.
Will they lose in a consolidation scenario? Who knows, but I bet Comair does.

BTW, Delta controls alot of the operation of it's feeders and has to pay for any flight it takes away for operational reasons, similarly, if RAH or SkyWest cancels a flight, they have to forfeit the payment to Delta. That's how I've understood the agreement.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Bombardier Aerospace announced today that Atlanta, Georgia-based Delta Air Lines has placed a firm order for 30 Bombardier CRJ900 regional jets and has taken options on an additional 30 CRJ900 aircraft (60 total).

I believe those 30 have already been delivered to Pinnacle, Freedom and Comair. Would Delta bring on a new fleet type for 30 airplanes. I doubt it for a number of reasons. General, if you want to know the main reasons just ask the guy sitting to your left on your next trip.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Apparently your reading comprehension is not too good. Delta already got the financing. I see no part of this deal predicated on "regional pilots" flying the airplanes. You can try to spin it though if you like.

Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension....these aircraft were financed with a plan to put them at the regionals....They are being placed at the regionals, not the mainline....

Delta came out of BK less than six months ago. http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/onair/transcripts/070913c/ These Delta RJ rates were negotiated during this time, with a gun to the head. This happened much later than the damaging and short sighted vote by self serving Skywest pilots agreeing to fifty seat pay for up to 99 seats. Keep in mind JB and others since that time pointed to the Skywest rates lowering rates on small jets not just at the regionals but industry wide.

Delta doesn't operate these aircraft, and agreeing to rates lower than ASA, CMR, and Skywest only puts further downward pressure on us..... The Skywest rates are higher than the Mesa and PNCL rates.....

 

[Sedona16]

Delta owns those airplanes and can get more. The reality is that when the merger mania gets all figured out Delta will purchase 100 seaters. The fact Delta will get these 100 seaters and they will be flown by Delta pilots has been conveyed repeatedly by Brian Bolt and others over at headquarters since hiring started back up. These 100 seaters will replace many of the regional jets flying.

I never said skywest didnt have a legal right to sue. What I did imply was that pissing off mother D during a time when many changes could rapidly take place may not be the best idea. Mesa sued United back in 1997 over a contract issue shortly before United dumped them. Also don't forget, on a per seat basis, there are better economics for DL flying EMB 190s than there are for Delta connection flying CR7s. Plus the EMB 190 is a far superior aircraft in just about every way. Alot of passengers hate climbing into the skinny tube CRJ's.

Mark my words, right now Delta is laser focused on the strategies of territory/combinations. When that is settled they will spend the money for additional MD90's which have been on hold (already approved for purchase by the board) and more aggressively go after a 100 seater (concievably the NWA Compass EMB's could be wrapped into the equation...DAL pilots wont agree to that operation getting around scope so those airplanes could be transferred to mainline in an agreement with the Union to merge) to shore up the domestic product with $100/barrel oil hovering nearbye.

 

[Sedona16]

Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension....these aircraft were financed with a plan to put them at the regionals....They are being placed at the regionals, not the mainline....



Delta doesn't operate these aircraft, and agreeing to rates lower than ASA, CMR, and Skywest only puts further downward pressure on us..... The Skywest rates are higher than the Mesa and PNCL rates.....

Btw, not all the rates for SJ's are lower at Delta. Twelve year Captain pay is as follows:

12 year Captain Rate:
DL EMB195 117.64
DL EMB190/CRJ-900 $100.08
US EMB190 $95
B6 EMB190 $101
OH CRJ700 $94
EV CRJ700 $86
OO* CRJ700 $86 (with the 1.5% pay raise)

Also top CRJ FO pay at SKW is $44/hr. Delta EMB190/CRJ-900 FO pay tops out at 67.34 and 79.16 on the EMB 195. Nothing to right home about but still not as embarrasingly low as SKW. Economies are better on the larger EMB's at Delta even with the slightly higher pay rates.

 

[Jmoney]

What if?

Delta doesn't have to pay for WX CNX flights, only mx CNX or anything caused by Delta that made a passenger miss a flight. WX doesn't count.

Bye Bye--General Lee

What if Delta cancelled the flight itself.......Idiot?

-As usual inane rambling from a moron-thanks for your insightful lack of perspective, general-you truly are the biggest tool here!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta owns those airplanes and can get more. The reality is that when the merger mania gets all figured out Delta will purchase 100 seaters. The fact Delta will get these 100 seaters and they will be flown by Delta pilots has been conveyed repeatedly by Brian Bolt and others over at headquarters since hiring started back up. These 100 seaters will replace many of the regional jets flying.

I've heard the same thing, but I think he is mistaken, or a little before his time.

The latest is that the current crop of 100 seaters on the market are thought to be obsolete when Boeing, or Airbus, create a 100 seat aircraft with "Dreamliner" technology. Delta would rather not pay top dollar for obsolete RJ's or E-Jets, preferring others to take on that obligation under short term contracts. (per direct sources on the VP level)

Here is a big part of the equation:
http://www.sae.org/aeromag/techinnovations/1298t10.htm
and
http://www.aviationnow.com/shownews/00farn3/hardwr07.htm

I am reading from other sources that the numbers are turning out to be much better than the early forecasts. This engine and the airplane it is installed on will be a game changer. In fact, an MD88 with FADEC and a pair of these would be a cheap, very efficient airplane. (Look at how the DC-8 has hung on with the CFM56's)

In the mean time, Delta continues to "like" the CRJ 700/900 and plans on deploying more of them - particularly if they can get them on someone else's books.

The scope monster is far from dead. This is one reason I STILL think we need to make One List a priority when mergers force open Section 1 again.

 

[~~~^~~~]

With regard to the SkyWest litigation. Anyone planning on picking up a copy of the codeshare agreement from the Fulton Ct.? Sounds like some pretty confidential information is about to hit the PUBLIC docket.

After many years of working with Aviation Law and litigation, it was a arrogant, naieve, almost stupid, move to put this dispute into litigation.

SkyWest got a screaming deal on ASA that has already paid for itself (I think DL should buy ASA back for the contracted price and crap can SKYW to save money). SkyWest must be figuring the Delta deal is close to over if they are going after chump change on a deal that is very rich to begin with.

 

[737 Pylt]

Btw, not all the rates for SJ's are lower at Delta. Twelve year Captain pay is as follows:

12 year Captain Rate:
DL EMB195 117.64
DL EMB190/CRJ-900 $100.08
US EMB190 $95
B6 EMB190 $101
OH CRJ700 $94
EV CRJ700 $86
OO* CRJ700 $86 (with the 1.5% pay raise)

Also top CRJ FO pay at SKW is $44/hr. Delta EMB190/CRJ-900 FO pay tops out at 67.34 and 79.16 on the EMB 195. Nothing to right home about but still not as embarrasingly low as SKW. Economies are better on the larger EMB's at Delta even with the slightly higher pay rates.

Don't go confusing joemerchant with facts, it only gets in the way of his hatred toward mainline pilots, and the real reason he is stuck at asa!

737

 

[goahead]

What if Delta cancelled the flight itself.......Idiot?

Thanks man he obviously missed my entire point.