Skywest/Pinnacle/GLakes/MESA

[Steveair]

SkyWest or Mesaba??

So what if you had a choice between SkyWest & Mesaba?

 

[64II]

be careful trying to chase the fast upgrade. it could work out and it may not. i was looking to be in upgrade class right now and instead i'm sitting in new hire class from furlough. it definitely is about the pic time but just be careful. as far as pay i think skywest is the best, but it does suck not being paid during training, however second year is more livable. plus, the rumors are true they are hiring about 400 more pilots through the beginning of next year. 20 more planes coming starting mid summer. i'm still in training and have 64 below me and have moved up about 30 numbers. rumor is they're losing about 15 pilots a month. upgrade might not be as fast as lakes, but if you're worried about pay it might be more tolerable. it all depends on your goals. given the current state of the industry i chose to go somewhere i could potentially make a career out of for my second go around.

good luck

 

[cfrey79]

You better believe it!

I have Bi Polar responses to this question.

First one is: GO WHERE YOU CAN UPGRADE ON A 1900 OR WHATEVER AS SOON AS YOU CAN AND STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHICH AIRLINE TO WORK FOR AND WHICH BASE IS BEST AND WHAT'S THE PAY LIKE BLAH BLAH BLAH!! Go where you can upgrade young padewan.

Why, so you can go to xpress jet or some other decent 'regional', with all that 1900PIC time. Is Southwest/UPS hiring beach 1900 people?

YES/YES!

 

[fly2002]

MESA"cite"! Go get that Delta flying!!
Their spreading!

From a guy SITTING in class at CHQ that is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[avrodriver]

It cracks me up when guys from airlines normally thought of as stepping stones brag about how their coworkers are getting hired with Southwest/FedEx etc, just like everyone else, trust me alot more have used their "valuable" 1900 time to go another regional.......I will admit in the end I'm sure it helps the resume, but I'm talking about taking the straight shot to majors.

Use common sense guys....if you meet the minimums you have a shot...you have no idea what connections these guys have. I doubt if there is an airline out there that hasn't hired someone directly from Lakes/Colgan/Commutair, etc. But I bet the percentage of new hires that strictly went that route is quite low comparitivley speaking. Stop asking "Does anybody know someone that.........", I don't know if your lookng for warm fuzzies or what, but what might have happened for some people is no guarantee it will happen for you.

Do what you have to do to make yourself competitive as well as enjoy your life, eveyone as their own ideas as to what this is, you just have to sit down and figure out what that is for you. Good Luck. AD

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Well, the latest bids have just been awarded at Skywest. CRJ Captain went as junior as 14 months. For the RJ, this is the fastest I have seen in my 5 years.

Yogi

 

[Lebowski]

The "facts" about Great Lakes

Don't be so negative about Lakes untill you know the facts.

Lakes is a great deal and a good time if you come with a positive attitude and you know what your here for. PIC time!!!

You left out some other important facts about Great Lakes:

• 15 month training contract for new hires that violates the Teamsters Collective Bargaining Agreement (this has been grieved by the union, but there's no resolution yet)
• Industry low pay
• High washout rates in both newhire and upgrade classes
• More MELs than you can shake a stick at
• Financial instability (more so than other carriers)
• Regular pattern of furloughs
• No Jepps for F.O.s (you'll have to buy your own if you want to know where you're going)
• Denials from hotels and fuelers
• Chey-tucky!
• Other things that I personally consider shady, but won't mention here

I agree that there are some good people and pilots at Lakes (as there are everywhere) and there's nothing wrong with getting some quick PIC. I disagree that Lakes is a great deal. And a "positive attitude" does nothing to change the facts above.

Yes, some pilots at Lakes get hired straight into UPS, FedEx, Alaska, etc. More power to them. If hiring picks up again at the majors then I'm sure a lot more Lakers will get hired straight out of the 1900.

It's not a "great deal"--it's a great RISK. In that last couple of years, MANY Lakers have defected to other, more reputable regionals. If there's a good chance that you're going to end up at ExJet, SkyWest, AWAC, COMAIR, Horizon, etc., then why waste time building seniority at Lakes? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Bigdaddymike]

Is the same for Gulfstream Airlines in Florida?

 

[Cardinal]

I don't think E-120 time is going to get anyone an interview at JBlu.

FWIW, a while back some random guy gave a shout out on company freq, he was an ex E120 driver passing overhead in a Blue A320. It's happened.

It's not a "great deal"--it's a great RISK. In that last couple of years, MANY Lakers have defected to other, more reputable regionals. If there's a good chance that you're going to end up at ExJet, SkyWest, AWAC, COMAIR, Horizon, etc., then why waste time building seniority at Lakes? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

You make it sound like "The Committee" decides where you'll work. Those guy's left for those carriers because they wanted to, not because they were being driven with a cattle prod. They consciously decided to move because of pay, avoiding a commute, or whatever. They knew what they were trading. Those who've held out have done rather well in this environment. Some used Lakes as a stepping stone just to get to the regional of their choice, while some simply miscalculated and couldn't deal with the standard Lakes crap. Don't make it sound like a coin toss.

Lebowski also raises questions about financial stability. While Lakes is no Rock of Gibraltar, I wouldn't go to a USAir Express carrier if someone put a gun to my head. That's a very big bubble threatening to burst. A newhire over there is at far great immediate threat of mass furloughs, and the mass competition that comes with them. At least at Lakes they keep the furloughs brief.

Use common sense guys....if you meet the minimums you have a shot...you have no idea what connections these guys have. I doubt if there is an airline out there that hasn't hired someone directly from Lakes/Colgan/Commutair, etc. But I bet the percentage of new hires that strictly went that route is quite low comparitivley speaking. Stop asking "Does anybody know someone that.........", I don't know if your lookng for warm fuzzies or what, but what might have happened for some people is no guarantee it will happen for you.

This is spot on. I've been doing some pondering, and have come to the following conclusion:

The Four Commandments of Great Lakes

1 Thou shalt have contacts. Don't come to Lakes if you don't have some intended future carrier with contacts to back it up. If you don't have contacts now, you better have serious charisma or networking skills, cause you have about 18 months to make a name for yourself in the company and impress your captains so much that they'll recommend you in the future. Example, a lowtime, well connected fellow recently interviewed at Continental. For the guy with no connections, a similar 3 year period of hardship would have no upside, just more years of junior-manning to look forward to. For this connected guy, it was a bargain beyond belief.

2 You must not suck. If you do, you'll fail initial or upgrade. Even worse, you'll be timid about bidding upgrade which completely defeats the purpose of coming here in the first place. Or you'll get fired, which has also happened.

3 You must not be deeply in debt, lest thy creditors rise up to smite thee. If you can't handle the pay, simply choose another carrier. Otherwise you'll waste a year deciding you can't handle the pay, and then sulk off the Skywest or ASA in search of the better second year pay. Meanwhile your colleagues stick it out for a bit and move into a Boeing where second year pay is twice what you'll make at the jet regionals.

4 Thou shalt not be an ass. If you can't interview, don't bother. Go to a big regional where they sweep out flight schools, get hired once, and stay put for the rest of your life. Don't come to Lakes, cause frankly it's a lousy place to stay put. Realistic self assesment is important. If Southwest is gonna laugh in your anti-social face, don't come to Lakes and buy a 737 type. It's simply a poor investment of time, anguish, and money.

If you meet the above standards, then a few years at Lakes can be a good investment for the motivated individual.

 

[Lebowski]

You make it sound like "The Committee" decides where you'll work. Those guy's left for those carriers because they wanted to, not because they were being driven with a cattle prod. They consciously decided to move because of pay, avoiding a commute, or whatever. They knew what they were trading. Those who've held out have done rather well in this environment. Some used Lakes as a stepping stone just to get to the regional of their choice, while some simply miscalculated and couldn't deal with the standard Lakes crap. Don't make it sound like a coin toss.

Lebowski also raises questions about financial stability. While Lakes is no Rock of Gibraltar, I wouldn't go to a USAir Express carrier if someone put a gun to my head. That's a very big bubble threatening to burst. A newhire over there is at far great immediate threat of mass furloughs, and the mass competition that comes with them. At least at Lakes they keep the furloughs brief.

I truly have no idea what your point is. I never said that any "commitee" decides where anyone works. I have no idea what that means.

The fact is, however you want to dance around it, many Lakers end up at other regionals. I acknowledged in the same post that you just quoted that some Lakers do move straight up to majors, did I not? I also said that I was truly happy for those guys, and that some Lakers would probably continue to bypass other regionals. I also said there were a lot of good pilots at Great Lakes. I'd say my remarks were pretty even-handed. Is there really anything in my post to dispute?

I worked at Lakes (apparently you do, and seem to want to defend that). I was simply offering some facts about employment there that the originator of this post asked about. Everything I said in my original post still stands.

You also say that Lakes is more stable than a USAirways Express Carrier? Who says? You? Stability of a regional is not directly tied to its major partners. Those relationships obviously can change on a dime. A reputable, well-managed company will always be in demand, and it won't routinely furlough its pilots. You said yourself that Lakes regularly furloughs pilots, so basically you are proving my point, not disproving it.

Anyway, you're the one who drew the comparison between Lakes and USAirways Express--although you try to make it sound like that was my point. I never said anything like that. My point was that there are plenty of other better, very stable, regionals to go to, but you seemed to miss that in your attempt to defend Great Lakes.

I'll give credit where it's due (I already have), but at least I won't try to hide the negative facts I know about Great Lakes or blow sunshine up its asss.

See ya.

 

[Lebowski]

Here's another way to look at this:

The original question sought a comparison between SkyWest, Pinnacle, Great Lakes and Mesaba.

Do SkyWest, Pinnancle, or Mesaba require a 15 month "training contract"? No, not to my knowledge

Does Great Lakes? Yes.

Are there any pilots at SkyWest, Pinnacle, and Mesaba who first spent time at Great Lakes? Yes, lots.

Are there any pilots at Great Lakes who first spent time at SkyWest, Pinnacle, or Mesaba and then decided to "move up" to Great Lakes? Get real.

So why go to Great Lakes when so many good carriers are hiring? Is it just for a quick upgrade? Ask around at those other carriers and you'll see that upgrades are happening fast elsewhere--maybe not everywhere--but at many GOOD regionals, not just Lakes.

 

[Cardinal]

I'm not blowing sunshine up anybody's ass. as evidenced by some of my previous posts:

Lakes is a lousy company, don't get me wrong, and they always turn up new ways to suck just a little bit more.

go to work expecting to be screwed, and am not dissapointed. If you plan on leaving inside 15 months, they'll hunt you down for the $7500 non pro-rata training contract. As far as prorities, if you put your QOL even a little bit ahead of fast-track career progression you'll be unhappy. If you don't mind an as%pounding for a few years, you'll love it.

Prepare to be cold in winter, hot in the summer, get stupid comments from pax everyday on every flight, throw bags to get out on time and make your commute, be distrusted by mgmt, be the flight attendant bitch, and get paid nothing. Count on getting junior-manned down to 10 days off per month for at least half of any given year. If that sounds like fun to you, well then come on home.

Yet sometimes I do feel the need to counter some of the sentiments on this board. Somebody asks a question about a Lakes interview, and on every thread it devolves into a "Why the hel! would you go there?" Bashfest. There are reasons. And I'll stand by my assertion the USAir system is less than fantastic place to be, particullarly the wholly owned carriers. A thrice bankrupt cash hemhorrraging operation that teeters on the brink? Or a carrier that modestly breaks even quarter after quarter. You pick. Or ask LearLove how confident he is in the arms of mother USAir.

 

[Lebowski]

Fair enough, Cardinal. I see what you're saying now.

Lebowski

 

[crzepilot]

They all suck! Go there are many other places that are much better.

 

[crashpad]

Hot Tip. The big boys like to see folks who work hard. If you worked for Lakes or Mesa you're gold!