• Major updates to Logbook Pro for Android and APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook for 117 are now available. Minor update for Logbook Pro on iOS devices. Click to learn more: APDL 11, Logbook Pro for Android, Logbook Pro for iOS. Update your devices today.

SkyWest paints optimistic picture for regionals

WayBack

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
1,153
Total Time
2.4
You said that when you run an airline the right way there is no need for a union. Yet SWA is thee most unionized airline.
You need to go back and read what I originally said. I said they didn't need a union like ALPA. SWAPA also doesn't have ulterior motives like ALPA, that is why the pilot group and the airline itself are successful.


I don't know why you feel the need for personal attacks.

If the pilots actually saw all the behind the scenes work, less of them would complain about ALPA.
I'm sorry about hurting your feelings, big hugs!
Ok, I believe you because you said so. We'll just take your word for it, because thats what all ALPA reps want you to. Never question, just trust us!

Yes, I have. But it wasn't ALPA. It was the IBT. The reason why they do this is because they don't want the pilots to the the little power they would get from being recognized by the NMB and having the power of the RLA behind them. I always feel that if management was actually making these threats, then its proof that a union is needed. Its a lot easier to make these threats with individual pilots rather than a bargaining agent. Not naive and I wish you really would stop with the personal attacks.
You sound a lot like PFT128, is he your ALPA mentor? Sorry for calling you naive, I apologize again for hurting your wittle feewings.

Like I've said before and like you've agreed, the act of piloting has benefited by the safety advances ALPA has helped bring to aviation. So by definition, yes, all part 91, 135, and 121 are riding the coat tails. That plus the magazine is worth more than 2%.

Hold it right there. I never agreed to anything. You need to quit taking yourself way too seriously, and see through peoples sarcasm. You guys need to grab a sense of reality when it comes to safety. Yes, ALPA does dabble in safety, but they're not responsible for everything you and Rez claim they are.
Many advancement in safety have been made without the help of ALPA. But wait, let me guess, ALPA has engineers working at every aircraft, avionics, engine and airframe manufacture. But, ALPA does come out with those neat little posters reminding pilots to check your altimeters and what not. Don't forget, those AAA batteries can cause some serious damage to the airplane as well.
 

Nevets

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Posts
2,431
Total Time
5000
You need to go back and read what I originally said. I said they didn't need a union like ALPA. SWAPA also doesn't have ulterior motives like ALPA, that is why the pilot group and the airline itself are successful.

You said that when you run an airline the right way there is no need for a union. You never said anything about alterior motives. But the only motive of ALPA is to advance the safety, pay, and QOL of ALPA pilots.

I'm sorry about hurting your feelings, big hugs!
Ok, I believe you because you said so. We'll just take your word for it, because thats what all ALPA reps want you to. Never question, just trust us!

I appreciate the sentiment but there is no need for it. You didn't hurt my feelings. I just don't understand why you feel the desire to make personal insults.

You don't have to beleive me either. I've been to meetings, Herndon, ask questions, researched, talked to pilots from other properties, etc. Nothing that no one couldn't do for themselves if they were concerned as I was.

You sound a lot like PFT128, is he your ALPA mentor? Sorry for calling you naive, I apologize again for hurting your wittle feewings.

I was just making a point that your assumptions are incorrect. I've worked at a non-union carrier. I've gone through multiple union drives at said carrier. And I work for an ALPA carrier now. And that I know full well why certain management treats their employees a certain way. And the ones who have ulterior motives for it, don't do it for concern of the employees.

Hold it right there. I never agreed to anything. You need to quit taking yourself way too seriously, and see through peoples sarcasm. You guys need to grab a sense of reality when it comes to safety. Yes, ALPA does dabble in safety, but they're not responsible for everything you and Rez claim they are.
Many advancement in safety have been made without the help of ALPA. But wait, let me guess, ALPA has engineers working at every aircraft, avionics, engine and airframe manufacture. But, ALPA does come out with those neat little posters reminding pilots to check your altimeters and what not. Don't forget, those AAA batteries can cause some serious damage to the airplane as well.

You said, "Of course! every one who flies an airplane part 91, 135 or 121, are riding the coat tails of ALPA. Glad ALPA is the only one who thinks so highly of itself that everyone is benefiting from their work.
2% out of a FO's paycheck is a lot of cash. A lot of money for a lousy magazine subscription.
"

If that was just sarcasm, then fine. But I never said ALPA was responsible for everything that has made piloting safe. And I haven't even said that ALPA was responsible for solely bringing any safety measure by itself. I just said that ALPA has helped make piloting safer. And yes, ALPA getting congress to stop the shipment of lithium batteries has made it safer as well.
 

WayBack

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
1,153
Total Time
2.4
And yes, ALPA getting congress to stop the shipment of lithium batteries has made it safer as well.

Shows the "strength" of ALPA. Never again will a lithium batter bring down an airliner. But pilots falling asleep at the helm is just fine.
 

Nevets

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Posts
2,431
Total Time
5000
Shows the "strength" of ALPA. Never again will a lithium batter bring down an airliner. But pilots falling asleep at the helm is just fine.

Just like it took a long time for lithium batteries it has with duty regs as well. But thanks for at least acknowledging the safety ALPA has helped bring to the profession once again.;)
 

JoeMerchant

ASA pilot
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
6,353
Total Time
14000+
ASA is proof that SKW can have a union and still be treated well and have a good working relationship with management.

Nevets, first let me comend you on being able to keep things civil. Your fellow ALPA supporter Rez. could learn a few things from you.

ASA is not proof that SKYW can have a union and still be treated well and have a good working relationship...The jury is still very much out on this..

We have a new MEC at ASA...IMO, the best one we have EVER had. I am for the first time in 16 years excited about our new MEC members. That isn't always the case with ALPA folks. Some are more militant than others....I believe you will have to admit that too....

Our former MEC had a more militant makeup, and Skywest penalized us during contract negotiations. Our 700s were transferred, and 900 deliveries were diverted to Skywest. I don't think the "militant" method is going to work with Jerry.

Honest question here...Would you rather work at Skywest without ALPA, or Mesa/Transtates/Pinnacle with ALPA? My honest answer is Skywest. We had ALPA with one of the worst managements ever here at ASA...and it was still miserable.
 

Speedtape

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Posts
1,973
Total Time
enough
You're incredibly smart, Rez. Scary smart! I don't think anyone on this forum would have picked that up if you hadn't pointed it out for us, Thanks again! Beer is on me next time! This is typical of any American business/Coorperation, especially one union who does it all the time. Do I need to name that Union?? Oh wait, they're an Association now.

My wages and benefits have been enhanced by ALPA representation over the years. I gladly pay my dues as a result.
 

Jon Rivoli

I am the Devil.
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Posts
2,338
Total Time
14K
My wages and benefits have been enhanced by ALPA representation over the years. I gladly pay my dues as a result.

But your career expectations have been snuffed. You have been sold down the river. That coolaid is laced with cyanide. When are you going to stop buying that B.S.

ALPA is just like one of those multi-level marketing schemes, sign up at the bottom and work your ass off and eventually you "MIGHT" get to be a Platinum Delux Pilot, or maybe not.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

Save the Profession
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Posts
13,422
Total Time
X>X
But your career expectations have been snuffed. You have been sold down the river. That coolaid is laced with cyanide. When are you going to stop buying that B.S.

Negative.... if one takes the time to look at historical trends, career expectations have always been more down than up.

ALPA is just like one of those multi-level marketing schemes, sign up at the bottom and work your ass off and eventually you "MIGHT" get to be a Platinum Delux Pilot, or maybe not.
Incorrect again. ALPA is the bargaining agent after employment has been secured... the issue is the common public perception of an airline pilot, Universities, puppy farms and interview preps (like the old AirInc) that sell the dream....

Unions don't market the employment. In fact one of the first times pilots encounter unions is during new hire class.

There is some truth in what you say that the system is set up so that a pilot works his tail off for the first half and if lucky makes it to Capt at a legacy. Even still, he is so much in debt from the first half....

One must understand history where FOs in ALPA never had a vote, then when they did get a vote it was only worth 1/2 of a Capt. vote.

One of the problems with the seniority system is... it double dips. It is not enough that one is super senior. No, he also has to have better than linear pay, cherry picks his schedule and has plenty of other contractual benefits... all while his peers are mucking along on govt assistance and debt.

It is not enough that the super senior guy has a buffer zone of his fellow pilots and can see furlough or insolvency months or even years away, allowing ample time for financial planning of his own demise.

Now, the problem is how to fix it.

I believe seniority itself is a benefit and much of the cherry schedules and other contractual benefits should be "robin hood'd" back to the junior guys.
 

WalterSobchak

Am I wrong?
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Posts
1,436
Total Time
40+/wk
...other contractual benefits should be "robin hood'd" back to the junior guys.
Thanks for the awful mental image of John Prater dressed as a fat, moustached Robin Hood. Well, that, and the hilarious image of Cary Elwes repeating the words "Taking It Back" ad nauseum.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

Save the Profession
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Posts
13,422
Total Time
X>X
Thanks for the awful mental image of John Prater dressed as a fat, moustached Robin Hood. Well, that, and the hilarious image of Cary Elwes repeating the words "Taking It Back" ad nauseum.
What do you suggest?
 

WalterSobchak

Am I wrong?
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Posts
1,436
Total Time
40+/wk
What do you suggest?
...maybe Captain Prater should hire Dave Chappelle to be his loyal sidekick, Achoo?

Just figured I'd lighten things up in a non-accusatory, non-threatening manner. I don't choose sides in the union debates anymore. You know that.
 

SkyNation

U.S. American
Joined
May 11, 2006
Posts
953
Total Time
12:34
Thanks for the awful mental image of John Prater dressed as a fat, moustached Robin Hood. Well, that, and the hilarious image of Cary Elwes repeating the words "Taking It Back" ad nauseum.

can't be much worse than the real, live image of him. Dude looks like a walrus that is being swallowed by a suit and got stuck at the neck. man alive, the jowls on that dude!
 
Last edited:
Top