SkyWest & Northwest

[T-Gates]

I had SkyWest's CEO, Jerry Atkin, in my jumpseat on Sept 18. I asked him about this and he said he would like the Northwest flying and they'd been talking about it. He also said that it seemed that the deal was dead and that Northwest had decided to use Pinnacle instead.

Unless we get Flaps 8, we're not going west yet......

 

[DoinTime]

Unless we get Flaps 8, we're not going west yet......

I don't think that very many of the western cities within reach of MSP by a CRJ that are worth a fleet-wide upgrade to flaps 8. All Pinnacle guys know that our SOC is currently incapable of managing a mixed fleet. There are a few western cities that would benefit from CRJ service and many others that could open new markets for NW but the cost has to justify the return. NW is plenty happy to code share these routes and stick to what they are good at.

He also said that it seemed that the deal was dead and that Northwest had decided to use Pinnacle instead.

It doesn't seem logical to carry more than two regional partners in today's environment. Two partners still gives the benefits of whipsawing one against the other but still retains the majority of the financial benefits of the minimum amount of overhead to carry.

Shortly after the Comair strike major carriers scurried to insulate themselves from a strike at the regional level, however, regional pilots have recently shown how much they value themselves by accepting concessions and substandard contracts when they are already underpaid. I believe the threat of a strike at the regional level has diminished significantly since the Comair pilots made a stand.

 

[T-Gates]

I don't think that very many of the western cities within reach of MSP by a CRJ that are worth a fleet-wide upgrade to flaps 8. All Pinnacle guys know that our SOC is currently incapable of managing a mixed fleet. There are a few western cities that would benefit from CRJ service and many others that could open new markets for NW but the cost has to justify the return. NW is plenty happy to code share these routes and stick to what they are good at.

I agree....

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I'm just curious. What do you mean by getting flaps 8? Are your aircraft not configured with a flaps 8 setting? Or are you talking performance data? Thank you.

 

[Lufthansa]

"Are your aircraft not configured with a flaps 8 setting? Or are you talking performance data? "

Yes and Yes.

 

[dondk]

the lowest setting we have is flap 20... they were too d@mn cheap to get the flaps 8.

They have MSA who can do some of the western flying (MSP-SLC), and I would expect to see they them go west before us.

I second our SOC could not handle a mixed fleet, they already have problems with 50 and 44 seater's.

Although at one of Phil's recurrent rally's.. he was mentioning a "third" airlink... Some of the names floating were Skywest, Air Wisky, Skyway and yes... Mesa..

To think NWA will stop at 129 is just crazy, you can count on some of those 175 options.. where they will go is another story...

 

[SpocksBeard]

NW could always go west with Mesaba by replacing the Saabs with Q300s and Q400s!! Riiiiiight. Pipedream.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Let me clarify. The new flying for Northwest that SkyWest was hoping to do would have been done out of MSP according to Mr. Atkin. That won't be happening and instead Northwest will continue to grow their RJ routes out of MSP with Pinnacle. I hope that clarifies things. My original post was assuming everyone understood that SkyWest would be creating a new domicile in MSP, not flying for Northwest out of our present western domiciles.

Regarding flaps 8. In the winter in SLC when you have to use cowl anti-ice you get a huge weight hit at flaps 20, like 4000-5000 lbs. But with flaps 8 you can take off (provided the runway isn't contaminated, just wet which equals dry if grooved) and not take any hit at all. It's a huge cost savings in the long run.

 

[T-Gates]

Let me clarify. The new flying for Northwest that SkyWest was hoping to do would have been done out of MSP according to Mr. Atkin. That won't be happening and instead Northwest will continue to grow their RJ routes out of MSP with Pinnacle. I hope that clarifies things. My original post was assuming everyone understood that SkyWest would be creating a new domicile in MSP, not flying for Northwest out of our present western domiciles.

Thats interesting.....I am wondering where NWA was planning to park even MORE RJ's......especially in Minne.

--T

 

[dondk]

Considering we don't have Flaps 8 (and I doubt we ever will)... There is not much flying west that I can see in the near future. As previously mentioned, our company can barely control the aircraft we have now, to add a third variation would create even more chaos.


Personally, I was hoping for another CRJ operator into the mix, it would give us something to shoot for come contract time. We need to increase our QOL and our mgmt still thinks we are at the top of the industry...

 

[T-Gates]

Considering we don't have Flaps 8 (and I doubt we ever will)... There is not much flying west that I can see in the near future. As previously mentioned, our company can barely control the aircraft we have now, to add a third variation would create even more chaos.


Personally, I was hoping for another CRJ operator into the mix, it would give us something to shoot for come contract time. We need to increase our QOL and our mgmt still thinks we are at the top of the industry...

Remember our job is EASY!



--T

 

[JJJ]

Thats interesting.....I am wondering where NWA was planning to park even MORE RJ's......especially in Minne.

MSP still has plenty of gate space avaliable. There are 13 gates on A. Right now we use a number of them, but Mesaba also parks SAAB's on a and an Avro on A14 and/or A13 every once in a while. If all the SAAB's were moved over to B that would open up some more gates. I think we can also park at the B gates, although they don't have air or external power.

DTW gate space seems to be pretty much maxed out as far as gates are concerned, I don't know where they are going to put additional airplanes.

We have around 70 airplanes now and 59 yet to come by the end of 2005. I can't imagine having an average of 20 more airplanes in each domicile. Maybe there is a new pilot base in our future.

There are also around 150-175 options for additional CRJ's. If NWA wants to keep getting more RJ's starting in 2006 they will have to exercise those options Sometime within the next two years. Anyone know how much lead time Bombardier needs to secure a delivery slot? I'm guessing that we will hear something in a year from now. Wheather NWA will exercise those options and who will be flying them remains to be seen. It will be an intersting few years coming up.

 

[DTWFO]

During re-current 2 weeks ago D. Shockey (sp) told us that there are "plenty of gates available in DTW" and that Continental was going to move over to the McNamara A terminal along with Delta and the Mesaba ARJ's. Pinnacle would then occupy all the B gates except for 1 COEX gate in B and one COEX gate in the C concourse. Also with the addition of Delta to the codeshare, Comair would get 1 gate in the C concourse as well. According to him, there is no problem in DTW!! But knowing them, they'll probably try to use the new aircraft as mx spares or something!! It will get interesting to say the least!

 

[Gator1999]

DTWFO,
For what it's worth, i've heard that the B concourse will be shared by Delta, Continental, and Pinnacle. While all the Mesaba Saabs will still be in the C concourse all the ARJ's will be moved to the A Concourse.

 

[flap operator]

For you PCL boys and girls who are so bent out of shape as to where all your shiney new CRJs are going to go - remember 1 thing. MESABA IS A SHRINKING AIRLINE. For every saab we return thats more gate space for your CRJs.

Eventually all of C in MEM will be CRJ - with all the avros parking on B. With the cutbacks in MEM parking will be the least of their worries.

In DTW it seems like B246 are all CRJ parking spots now with only 1 and 3 left for avros. Plus C gates that open up with less saab flying.

In MSP as mentioned, B concourse gates are being opened up it looks like - not to mention the whole saab retirement thing. Plus, we used to park all over the place in MSP and it wouldn't surprise me if that were to happen again to make way for all the CRJs. C21-C27 could easly turn into seven gates sporadically dispersed thoughout D, F, G.

Any avro driver out there remember the C26 to the golfcourse marathon during an equip swap at the old DTW terminal? Seems like those times are returning.



FO

 

[JJJ]

I don't think any of us PCL guys are "bent out of shape" about gate space. It's just speculation as to where additional airplanes are going to be parked.

We are aware of the plights of Mesaba. But does that mean that we are not allowed to discuss our growth?

 

[flap operator]

Fine - poor choice of words. I'm just pointing out a HUGE part of your growth. You're growing + XJ shrinking = that's where you're parking your planes.

At no time did I ever say you weren't allowed to discuss growth. Better you guys get the growth than a third party like Mesa. It sucks to be on the receiving end of the big dump NWA is taking on us at Mesaba. Just a little bitter, that's all.

BTW - those CRJ pics in DTW = very low.


FO

 

[JJJ]

Whats the story with the CRJ pictures in DTW? I'm based in MSP.

 

[flap operator]

I guess your base mgr or someone brilliant working for PCL in DTW thought a little decorating of the hallway was in order. I'm talking about the hallway that XJ and 9E share where our control center, ops areas, breakrooms etc... are located. I guess this person thought 129 individual pictures of NWA Airlink CRJs would complement the already divided hallway and sterile decor.


FO