Skywest makes big order with options

[General Lee]

Reuters
UPDATE - Bombardier gets C$1.2 billion order from SkyWest
Monday September 15, 12:10 pm ET


(Adds details, quotes, analyst comment, stock price move)
MONTREAL, Sept 15 (Reuters) - Plane and train maker Bombardier Inc. (Toronto:BBDb.TO - News) has won a C$1.2 billion ($876 million) order to supply 30 of its 70-seat regional jets to United Express carrier SkyWest Airlines (NasdaqNM:SKYW - News).

Montreal-based Bombardier said on Monday the SkyWest order includes options for 80 additional aircraft, which could boost the value of the deal to about C$4.6 billion.

Bombardier will deliver the jets from early 2004 through 2005.

Bombardier class B shares gained 16 Canadian cents, or 3 percent, to C$5.66 on the Toronto Stock Exchange (News - Websites) on Monday morning as more than 4 million shares changed hands.

The 70-seat jet market segment is key for Montreal-based Bombardier as the aircraft is sold for a higher price than its original 50-seat version.

"This deal confirms the domination of Bombardier in the 70-seat market," said Pierre-Yves Terrisse, analyst at Desjardins Securities.

"It is positive for the backlog and orders are starting to come in," he said, recalling the U.S. Airways Group (Other OTC:USALA.PK - News) order for 25 Bombardier 70-seat regional jets last May.

Terrisse noted that Bombardier's top rival, Brazil's Embraer (Sao Paolo:EMBR4.SA - News; NYSE:ERJ - News), had not yet delivered its first 70-seat regional jet.

"Bombardier has a length-lead over Embraer in this sector," he said.

SkyWest has said it expects to grow through expanded flying for bankrupt partner United Airlines, a unit of UAL Corp. (OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News).

($1=$1.37 Canadian)




I have also heard that Skywest has been approached by Northwest to also fly 70 seaters for them.(Pure rumor) Atleast Skywest can say they have saved on pilots costs----with the same wages for both 50 and 70 seat aircraft. Will that change? Probably not----it wouldn't be COMPETITIVE. ASA and Comair must also be watching this.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[reno]

Atleast Skywest can say they have saved on pilots costs----with the same wages for both 50 and 70 seat aircraft. Will that change? Probably not----it wouldn't be COMPETITIVE.

Don't be so sure General Lee. The current contract is for the same pay for 50-70 seaters for 18 months only. (What, 12 months remaining?) Management fought hard to win that citing that they REALLY needed it to be competitive to get the contracts. Pilots gave management the benefit of the doubt. But when the contract gets renewed it's gonna be tough to convince the pilot group of the same as SkyWest has remained profitable throughout. The vast majority of SkyWest pilots want a wedge driven between 50-70 seat pay scales.

 

[General Lee]

Reno,

I like your optimism and I hope that you are correct. But, in 12 more months the competition will also have your same rates, and your management will state that "We have to Compete!!!! We can't give you raises, we will go Chap 11!!!" I know that is a little bit overboard, but that is probably what they will say. It is right out of the airline management playbook. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[asacap]

Did I understand this correctly that Skywest negotiated, then approved a pay rate for the 70 seater that is equal to the 50 seater. Unbelievable. Minimum wage, here we come.

 

[Ted Striker]

Did I understand this correctly that Skywest negotiated, then approved a pay rate for the 70 seater that is equal to the 50 seater. Unbelievable. Minimum wage, here we come.

Everything up to 99 seats is the same rate.

 

[asacap]

99 Seats! Are you joking? I don't believe anyone would do that. Please tell me this is a joke. Was this ever voted on? Who cares on the # of seats if it pays the same. This is truly sad if this is true. I pray that it isn't, but if it is, skywest is leading the way to the bottom.

Look out Mesa. There's a new whore in town.

 

[House_X]

Why on earth would you guys sign the same rate for up to 99 seats. I thought Skywest was a respectable company where management and the pilot group "get's along"? I thought you guys just voted for a pay freeze on the CRJ-200 and the Brazilia?

No wonder we are having trouble negotiating our narrowbody payrates...

 

[StopStarin'AtMe]

No wonder we (ACA) are having trouble negotiating our narrowbody payrates...

So does that mean that you guys are still in negotiations. I thought you were going solo.

 

[nimtz]

!

Don't be so sure General Lee. The current contract is for the same pay for 50-70 seaters for 18 months only. (What, 12 months remaining?) Management fought hard to win that citing that they REALLY needed it to be competitive to get the contracts. Pilots gave management the benefit of the doubt. But when the contract gets renewed it's gonna be tough to convince the pilot group of the same as SkyWest has remained profitable throughout. The vast majority of SkyWest pilots want a wedge driven between 50-70 seat pay scales.

They should of wantED a wedge so bad that the wouldn't of voted in a single pay rate regardless of seat type. Talk about a bunch of koolaid drinking buffons! BTW, good luck convicing your management through your non-union association that you deserve real pay to fly the 70 seaters. I'm sure mangement will be in a big hurry to help you, because they care about you that d*mn much.

I'll bet Skywest places a bigger order in a year for more 70 seaters to fly for CAL as well. Ah the race to the bottom continues, but hey at least we get to fly jets. Pretty cool right!?!

 

[House_X]

So does that mean that you guys are still in negotiations. I thought you were going solo.

We're negotiating "solo" rates, not United rates. And now there's someone else who's lowballing which will make ALL CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS EVEN MORE DIFFICULT.

THANK-YOU SKYWEST!!!!

 

[FlyboyPhil]

Bash on...

We make a temporary concession at one of the best, if not the best of the regionals and now we are the lowball leaders of the world.. what color is the sky in your world?
As for the comment about our weak nonunion status.. compare contracts and get back to me..
If you want to bash us do it for no pay to newhires until the aircraft checkride(they do get hotel).. not for our payscale..
Grow up!

 

[General Lee]

It was all about expansion. The vote or "survey" was a perfect one----all of the FOs wanted expansion so they could get into the left seat and get some sort of a pay raise. The junior Captains wanted a line and a better lifestyle. Only the senior Capts saw this injustice and "voted" NO. The vote was supposedly 52% in favor, and the NEXT MORNING at 7am--they announced that they had come up with an agreement with UAL. (Those lawyers must have been up ALL night!!!!) But, management did say that they would "Discuss it" with them within 18 months, or about 1 year from now. I can bet you I know what management's response will be: "We HAVE TO stay at these rates to stay COMPETITIVE----we have already signed the contract and cannot go any higher...sorry---but, we are starting Saginaw, MI service from O'hare next week, and we will let you stay there for the 9 hour layover at a Crowne Plaza---not a Holiday Inn Select----for your enjoyment. Thank you."

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DoinTime]

As for the comment about our weak nonunion status.. compare contracts and get back to me..

You guys don't have a contract. You have a non-legally binding working agreement that can be torn up and burned at any time.

 

[Sky-doggie]

Um Yeah whatever......

We'll see what skywest pilots will vote for in the next TA. Hopefully the payrates will go up for >50 seat aircraft, or there will likely be union representation on the property. I think SkyWest management is well aware of this and will work with SAPA to come up with something both fair for the pilots and profitable for the company. They don't want to see ALPA or UPA at SkyWest. Many of the pilots don't want to either at this point. Many skywest pilots voted on this TA believing management that this was good for the long term growth of the company. The pilots at Skywest work very hard for the company to make it such an efficient and profitable operation and history has shown (30 years in business) that management and the pilots have always been able to work things out in-houseWe'll all know in about a year.......

Most of the comments on this board come from guys that probably did not get hired at Skywest at one time, so they will take any chance they can to take a low blow. I'm not saying life is perfect at skywest but most of the people here are pretty freakin happy to be here.

Skywest also has better pay rates and work rules than most of the regionals that have ALPA representation. So what does that tell you?

I find it funny that some A/hole from ASA would make any comments about skywest especially when they probably paid for their training several years ago to get their job! Talk about a whore! ASA can't even come close to our record of being on time!!!!!!! I bet our snack mix is better too!!!!! neener neener neeener!!!!

 

[46Driver]

It was all about expansion. The vote or "survey" was a perfect one----all of the FOs wanted expansion so they could get into the left seat and get some sort of a pay raise. The junior Captains wanted a line and a better lifestyle.

I may (actually will) be shot for saying this but I understand that sentiment completely. Look at the mins for the companies that are hiring (Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, FedEx) - all require significant amount of PIC jet (or turboprop) time. What does 5000 hours of F.O. RJ time get you? Absolutely nothing - they won't even take your resume. Expansion gets you PIC time and a pay raise of 33% to 50%.

Armor on, bunker dug, awaiting incoming.........

 

[treetopflyer]

46 driver,

whats up with the rumors of untied ditching you guys? the shi-*awqua pilots are singing the praises of your demise in the street like some dumb arab dancing around a plane wreck..

tell me its not true and untied hasn't got you guys twice now..

 

[46Driver]

46 driver,

whats up with the rumors of untied ditching you guys?

I wish that was the case. United won't let us go which is the problem. Until they either come out of bankruptcy or reject our contract (which is quite favorable to ACA), we are still flying for them. I am sure some of the other ACA guys will want to jump in on this.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Re: Um Yeah whatever......

ASA can't even come close to our record of being on time!!!!!!! I bet our snack mix is better too!!!!! neener neener neeener!!!!

It's not a company problem, it's an environment problem. (ATL)

Let's just hope that skywest doesn't use these lowball rates to try to steal any of ASA's ATL flying. Wouldn't want that stellar ontime performance of theirs to suffer, now would we?

 

[46Driver]

Don't worry about ASA, I would think that the vast majority of SkyWest's new orders are to replace ACA in O'Hare and Dulles - with the same kinds of problems as in Atlanta

 

[Anti-Matter]

46 driver,

whats up with the rumors of untied ditching you guys? the shi-*awqua pilots are singing the praises of your demise in the street like some dumb arab dancing around a plane wreck..

tell me its not true and untied hasn't got you guys twice now..

United ditching US (ACA)?????? Where have you been for the past 6 weeks.

 

[asacap]

.

We'll see what skywest pilots will vote for in the next TA. Hopefully the payrates will go up for >50 seat aircraft, or there will likely be union representation on the property[/QUOTE

I'm not so sure these guys are smart enough. Just look at what they have done. They have such low opinions of themselves that they take it in the behind from managment and still think it's the greatest company in the world. I bet your managment laughs at you guys all day long. Rightfully so. Everyone is laughing at you guys. That is, until you take our jobs.

 

[hagen]

Wish in one hand and sheeeit in the other. Just don't be around me when you do. I'll read the outcome later........

 

[treetopflyer]

sorry, i thought 46 driver worked for Air wiskey..

 

[House_X]

Re: Um Yeah whatever......

We'll see what skywest pilots will vote for in the next TA. Hopefully the payrates will go up for >50 seat aircraft, or there will likely be union representation on the property. I think SkyWest management is well aware of this and will work with SAPA to come up with something both fair for the pilots and profitable for the company. They don't want to see ALPA or UPA at SkyWest. Many of the pilots don't want to either at this point. Many skywest pilots voted on this TA believing management that this was good for the long term growth of the company. The pilots at Skywest work very hard for the company to make it such an efficient and profitable operation and history has shown (30 years in business) that management and the pilots have always been able to work things out in-houseWe'll all know in about a year.......

Most of the comments on this board come from guys that probably did not get hired at Skywest at one time, so they will take any chance they can to take a low blow. I'm not saying life is perfect at skywest but most of the people here are pretty freakin happy to be here.

Skywest also has better pay rates and work rules than most of the regionals that have ALPA representation. So what does that tell you?

I find it funny that some A/hole from ASA would make any comments about skywest especially when they probably paid for their training several years ago to get their job! Talk about a whore! ASA can't even come close to our record of being on time!!!!!!! I bet our snack mix is better too!!!!! neener neener neeener!!!!

Your management doesn't want ALPA because they would actually have to NEGOTIATE with a unified front representing the pilots rather telling the pilots what to do. I know some of the guys who tried to start the union at Skywest. Now you have the jet for jobs issue and the pay freeze so "working in-house with management” is a myth.

As far as the comment of "low blows" from failed Skywest candidates. I can only speak for myself. I never interviewed at Skywest. We all respect Skywest and you run a good operation. But don't forget, Comair, ASA, CHQ(they stood up against Republic), and ACA are good operations as well. We all work hard to make our companies profitable. Bragging about your on-time performance is not going to earn the respect of pilots who fly out of ORD, BOS, STL, ATL or any other domiciles east of the Mississippi. We've been through this before. ASA deals with some of the worst WX in the Unites States.

Now that we know the reasons behind Skywest growth, I guess the "Holy than art thou" attitude will be a two edge sword.

 

[Gobi Gred]

House X,

Well said. Unfortunately we have too many pilots at SkyWest who think that we are somehow special or unique and that the rules of the airline industry don't apply to us. Yes, SkyWest is great place to work and yes for the most part it is well run. But we are just another airline like ASA, Comair, etc. Oh wait, there is a difference. The pilot group at SkyWest is the most uninformed, ununified and naive pilot group in the industry. I'm sorry to be bashing on my fellow pilots. But after reading some of the posts on this thread, frankly I'm embarassed.

 

[Sky-doggie]

again...ummm yeah whatever

House_X

With regard to the jet for jobs issue. We are expanding our operation by bringing some furloughed United guys off the street. I am glad for those people, to be able to go back to work.

IS ALPA providing these guys and gals jobs in this time of economic downturn? NO! Is United going to bring these guys back any time soon? NO!

So to say that we (SkyWest pilots)as a group are screwing everybody else is totally ridiculous. United is paying those pilots the difference between first and second year pay for an FO, and only 5 united pilots per 70 seat jet are to be hired and that does not necessarily mean they will be flying the 70 seaters. None of them will be in the left seat right away. Where is ALPA on this one? I don't see them calling for a strike at United to stop this horrible injustice! We do work with our management here and to my knowledge no skywest pilot has been furloughed in the last 2 years.

What did ALPA get for the ACA pilots in your last TA? I have friends there and ACA pilots voted for a paycut to keep their jobs. How many pilots are on furlough at ACA?
Now you guys don't want to fly for United any more. Well good luck I hope ACA grows into an independent regional and you guys do great. What will be your payrate for your new A320s and 737s? I'll bet you guys will undercut Jetblue, southwest, United , Delta, or anyone you have to to get it off the ground.
So don't preach holier than though to me!

I know at least 20 pilots there and I'm pulling for you! I'm curious how long is your TA with ACA good for? How many years? Ours is 18 months so the future is uncertain for sure but your statement that without a unified front we have no chance is just wrong. We got no paycuts in our last TA! We have no pilots on furlough! Are you guys that much better off than us right now because you have a union I seriously doubt it!
Unfortunatly ALPA is a toothless tiger right now. I'm not opposed to the idea of unions. All I'm saying is so far skywest has not needed a union to solve our problems here.

In case you all have not noticed? Look at our route map....we fly all over the country so to say that we are on time only because we are in sunny california is just not true.

I'm just sick of hearing about how we (Skywest pilots) screwed the airline industry by voting on our 18 month TA which I believe will only help us in the future. Like I said earlier the future is yet to be seen. We may reach a point where we have no other choice but to organize. But that time has yet to come......

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Re: Um Yeah whatever......

Skywest also has better pay rates and work rules than most of the regionals that have ALPA representation. So what does that tell you?



That tells us that you are a bunch of leaches. The Union pilots out there fight the fight like we did with our strike, and you guys reap the benifits. Kinda like the French during WW2.

Where do you think you would be if you did not have UNIONIZED pilot groups fighting for better contracts. Your mgt. GIVES you what you have because WE fought for it.

Get a clue.

 

[Russ]

I sure as heck didn't want this same pay rate schedule, but in a perverse way I am kind of glad it happened. Many of my myopic brethern wanted to give management breathing room that I didn't believe they needed. That sets the stage for about a year from now. I have to believe management will only offer a token raise. Hopefully that will be the inducement many on the fence in reference to union representation need. I say sorry to those out there who feel we wronged them. That said I still have a hard time taking guff from someone who bought their job.

 

[FADEC]

Sky - doggie

After reading your post I felt compelled to correct you. United are not paying new hire furloughed United pilots the difference between first and second year pay - YOU ARE!! All the concessions that you agreed on are being passed directly to mother United. These furloughed pilots must be better than you or I. Why not go the extra mile and and help United further. The next time you get paid, why don't you just find a furloughed UAL pilot at Skywest and cut them a check for the pay difference.
Don,t forget to grovel.

 

[belchfire]

ummm, what's a raise??? It's been so long I forgot. I can't wait
till our EAS contracts expire and the government realizes that STL
isn't a hub anymore (THANKS AMERICAN!). Boy, will the peanutbutter get in the fan then! Hey, maybe Eagle will come get
their junkstreams back!!!

Ha....hahaha!