SkyWest Had Made Hostile $3.50/Share Bid For ExpressJet

[Andy Neill]

This may illustrate the type of concern some ExpressJet are feeling:
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-04-28/

 

[rudder]

Now, last I checked, an alter-ego carrier is one that is created to circumvent the rules of a CBA...i.e; GoJet.

You can claim whipsaw all you want, but ASA and SkyWest are not "alter-ego carriers".

You could not be more wrong. The 'Skywest' empire is the quintessential alter ego operation and is looking to grow even larger......

 

[L.A.pilot]

Call it what you want, but the end result is the same. After SkyWest acquired ASA and decided to keep them divided, they owned two airlines with two identities and two separate pilot groups. In fact, SkyWest already has a large population of union hating pilots which makes their job a lot easier than trying to build a new union-busting airline from scratch.

Keeping the pilot groups separated is absolutely not good for pilots. It may benefit some in the short term, but at the expense of other pilots. I would feel like I scab if I allowed myself to be used by management to screw over other pilots. But that's just me. Apparently most of the SkyWest pilots will take glee in it because they get more shiny jets to fly! Yay!

 

[flyboyzz1]

I'm afraid you sir don't know the definition of a scab

 

[L.A.pilot]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scab

SCAB: 3 a: a contemptible person b (1): a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2): a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3): a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

3a, 3b(1), 3b(4) apply.

 

[Dubya]

Call it what you want, but the end result is the same. After SkyWest acquired ASA and decided to keep them divided, they owned two airlines with two identities and two separate pilot groups. In fact, SkyWest already has a large population of union hating pilots which makes their job a lot easier than trying to build a new union-busting airline from scratch.

Keeping the pilot groups separated is absolutely not good for pilots. It may benefit some in the short term, but at the expense of other pilots. I would feel like I scab if I allowed myself to be used by management to screw over other pilots. But that's just me. Apparently most of the SkyWest pilots will take glee in it because they get more shiny jets to fly! Yay!

Curious...does it sting when you talk out of your ass?

W

 

[Andy Neill]

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

South Pacific

 

[auspac]

Merge seniority lists and have a bunch of senior to me (9+ years) ex Continental Express PFTers above me? Hell No!!!!! Use the scab word all you want, but believe me son, you have some senior guys who did more harm than a no vote to ALPA has ever done.

 

[L.A.pilot]

Dubya, are you a SkyWest pilot? How did you feel about getting all of those ASA planes? Were you excited about it? How about the legion of airplanes in Delta and United colors you received while their respective pilots were put to the street?

How did you feel when your management asked you to take pay freezes and agree to fly larger planes for significantly less than pilots at competing airlines? How about when they lied about taking pay cuts of their own so you'd feel better about it all the while bragging to investors about how much money they were bringing in?

No one has crossed picket lines at SkyWest, but the mentality seems to exist there. As long as I get mine... Many of the people on this message board are giving that impression. The fact that the pilots overwhelmingly voted against a union gives the impression that most of you support the actions of your management that have degraded the profession.

It sure takes a lot of gall to come here and tell someone that they need to ditch their contract so you can steal their job!

 

[Dubya]

Dubya, are you a SkyWest pilot? How did you feel about getting all of those ASA planes? Were you excited about it? How about the legion of airplanes in Delta and United colors you received while their respective pilots were put to the street?

How did you feel when your management asked you to take pay freezes and agree to fly larger planes for significantly less than pilots at competing airlines? How about when they lied about taking pay cuts of their own so you'd feel better about it all the while bragging to investors about how much money they were bringing in?

No one has crossed picket lines at SkyWest, but the mentality seems to exist there. As long as I get mine... Many of the people on this message board are giving that impression. The fact that the pilots overwhelmingly voted against a union gives the impression that most of you support the actions of your management that have degraded the profession.

It sure takes a lot of gall to come here and tell someone that they need to ditch their contract so you can steal their job!

I have friends there that were paid to sit on their arse for over 6 months following 9/11...by the same greedy management that you don't really know anything about. I don't agree with every decision they make...but I don't have to look far to find union carriers...regional and major...that have gotten screwed much harder.

I've personally talked to ASA pilots that are seeing positive changes in their workplace...still union...still under contract....by the same greedy management you speak of.

So again curious...what kind of ointment to you spread on your anus after spewing spicy BS out of it?

W

 

[L.A.pilot]

It's great getting paid to not fly. I had a month of pay with no work following 9/11. Was your friend one of the SAPA guys that got paid 25% more than line pilots to spread anti-union propaganda? I hear they've got a pretty sweet deal.

I agree that working for SkyWest isn't all pain and misery. It is actually a great company. The problem is that as pilots we need to protect the profession. There have been a lot of things that have degraded the profession over the years. There is much harm from having pilots divided against each other.

Here is a true story about SkyWest: A new hire ground school was taking place on 9/11/01 in Salt Lake City. The students showed up to class after hearing some reports about the events of the morning, but not really knowing what is going on. The instructor comes into the room twenty minutes late, and starts calling on the students to go over homework problems. A few minutes into this, one of the students asks the instructor if he knew anything about what was going on. The instructor's response: "Well, yeah, but that's not really important here because it's happening way over in New York."

Don't be caught up in your own little world.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Call it what you want, but the end result is the same. After SkyWest acquired ASA and decided to keep them divided, they owned two airlines with two identities and two separate pilot groups. In fact, SkyWest already has a large population of union hating pilots which makes their job a lot easier than trying to build a new union-busting airline from scratch.

Keeping the pilot groups separated is absolutely not good for pilots. It may benefit some in the short term, but at the expense of other pilots. I would feel like I scab if I allowed myself to be used by management to screw over other pilots.

ALPA doesn't care about separate pilot groups that are owned by the same parent corporation....In 2000 the ASA and CMR pilots tried to get ALPA to negotiate a single list on the DAL property.....ALPA was opposed to that idea...

You're right about a single list...but dont fall for the ALPA cheerleaders....they can't achieve single lists....

ALPA even deleted the alter-ego definition after ASA and CMR were purchased by DAL....

"Those in glass houses"...and ALPA is occupying a glass house with many broken windows....

 

[JoeMerchant]

http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

 

[L.A.pilot]

Joe,

I don't know whether ALPA can achieve a single list at SkyWest, but is there another option? ALPA is only as strong as the pilot group it represents. If the pilots are not willing to fight for it, it will not happen.

I spoke with a friend at ExpressJet this morning. He said "it will be a cold day in hell" before they throw out their merger clause for SkyWest. At airlines with bigger iron, there is not a question about this. They will not allow a merger without seniority integration no matter how painful it is. The alternative is worse.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

I don't know whether ALPA can achieve a single list at SkyWest, but is there another option? ALPA is only as strong as the pilot group it represents. If the pilots are not willing to fight for it, it will not happen.

I spoke with a friend at ExpressJet this morning. He said "it will be a cold day in hell" before they throw out their merger clause for SkyWest. At airlines with bigger iron, there is not a question about this. They will not allow a merger without seniority integration no matter how painful it is. The alternative is worse.

That will be your choice....But I believe the alternative will be the unemployment line...and that is going to be a long line for awhile....

ALPA is afraid of pushing a negotiated single list because it will result in a representation vote for the new group and ALPA may lose that vote....They can ill afford more losses as they have lost 7000+ members in the last month.....

The choice is yours....don't cut off your nose to spite your face....

Jerry and CAL are holding guns to both sides of the XJT head....Do you feel lucky....well do ya..????

 

[L.A.pilot]

Joe,

I think you are painting an overly grim picture here. Wasn't there a discussion earlier about how this isn't a "hostile" take over. Guns pointed at heads, eh?

If you are an ASA pilot, what are you doing to get a single seniority list? I'm not talking cutting off noses here. How about pruning dead branches. We are not going to get anywhere unless people start saying, "enough is enough".

I have respect for the Aloha pilots that were willing to walk off the job so that the company would have to respect the seniority rights of other pilots, even though it meant that they themselves would be out of work. It was the right thing to do.

Why didn't you strike over seniority integration? Was it not a priority? Are your representives elected from within your ranks or are they appointed by ALPA national? Were you afraid you would be replaced by scabs?

The ExpressJet pilots don't need to strike, they just need to say, "no thank you". They already negotiated for a single list. Maybe SkyWest won't be interested anymore. Maybe ExpressJet will fail sometime in the future. Maybe not. Regardless, it is the right thing to do.

 

[Andy Neill]

Here is a true story about SkyWest: A new hire ground school was taking place on 9/11/01 in Salt Lake City. The students showed up to class after hearing some reports about the events of the morning, but not really knowing what is going on. The instructor comes into the room twenty minutes late, and starts calling on the students to go over homework problems. A few minutes into this, one of the students asks the instructor if he knew anything about what was going on. The instructor's response: "Well, yeah, but that's not really important here because it's happening way over in New York."

Don't be caught up in your own little world.

That's not the way I remember it and I was there. I saw it first hand - you got second hand info. I do remember that the class was kept and trained while other airlines cancelled classes in progress and sent folks home.

 

[yahooair]

L.A. Pilot, just curious...what fact do you have ASA airplanes went to Skywest? is this what your management kept telling you and all ASA pilots came to believe? or do you have a copy of the Bombardier order sheet. I am from YUL with alot of freinds who work for Bombardier. Until this day, i have not seen any switch from ASA to OO....please IM me cause I want to see firsthand where you guys got this info from...any ASA pilots, also please feel free.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

If a takeover by SKW doesn't happen, or we kill it by saying no thanks we'll just keep our contract intact, and then CAL proceeds to dismantle XJT as promised... Well, has CAL even considered just how quickly XJT will dismantle itself from the inside out due to immediately increased attrition of hundreds to any job with a bit more hope of a better future when we know we're finished? CAL is holding a gun to their own head here too. I forsee a lot of crew cancels for a long time if we go with the nuclear option here.

 

[flyboyzz1]

I'm pulling for the continued success of XJT but if what you say is true, bigshot, I hope that "ANY" you posted wasn't referring to airline jobs. I would guess most of the attrition would be FOs and lord knows it would be impossible to get on with someone worth while now days with the saturation.

 

[goahead]

Hate to say it men but with CAL signing a CPA agreement with SKYW and putting you on notice about the reduction of flying it would appear that either you will be doing the flying under SKYW or they will do it themselves. First I have nothing but respect for you guys, I commute on you all the time and have eight friends that work there, however I think that three separate companies under SKYW is better than you all looking for new jobs. Times are changing and no one get's financing anymore in bankruptcy. I think RP and SKYW will be the two major regional's in a few years, Mesa gone, Comair getting screws put to them by DAL, and who knows if anything will ever happen to eagle.

 

[USCtrojan]

L.A. Pilot, just curious...what fact do you have ASA airplanes went to Skywest? is this what your management kept telling you and all ASA pilots came to believe? or do you have a copy of the Bombardier order sheet. I am from YUL with alot of freinds who work for Bombardier. Until this day, i have not seen any switch from ASA to OO....please IM me cause I want to see firsthand where you guys got this info from...any ASA pilots, also please feel free.

You haven't been at OO very long. Yes, at the end of 2006, 4 70 seat airframes transferred from the ASA property to SkyWest's. This was about a year after the buyout and the strongarming of the Company for ASA to take a paycut. ASA refused, the airframes were transferred, and it cost SkyWest INC. over a million dollars. It's in the 2006 Annual Report.

Trojan

 

[Nevets]

Gentlemen,

You keep forgetting that CAL left the door open for XJT to come to terms with them if the SKW deal does not happen. The letter in part says, "...absent our entering into a new CPA with savings of the magnitude we have negotiated with SkyWest, we currently expect to deliver to ExpressJet on June 28, 2008, a notice to withdraw 51 of the existing 205 Covered Aircraft from the current CPA, beginning in December 2009." If XJT and CAL sign a CPA "with savings of the magnitude they[sic] have negotiated with SkyWest", there wont be any withdrawal of aircraft.

This is a negotiating tactic for CAL. They win either way because either SKW gives them the savings or an independent XJT does. They don't care who they get their savings from.

Once again, this is not to say that a SKW buyout may not be good for everyone.

 

[L.A.pilot]

That's not the way I remember it and I was there. I saw it first hand - you got second hand info. I do remember that the class was kept and trained while other airlines cancelled classes in progress and sent folks home.

I know that you were one of the instructors in that class and that it was not you who made that statement. Were you actually in the room at the time? Everyone in the room was quite shocked and someone responded that "it will matter to you if you plan on flying anywhere anytime soon". If you were indeed in the room at the time, can you tell me how you remember it? I was using it to illustrate the mentality some have-- that the world revolves around them and no one else matters. The instructor wasn't really thinking about how poorly he came across saying that, but ended up realizing it later and apologizing.

Sure SkyWest didn't cancel the class, but it wasn't out of benevolence. They needed pilots to support the RJ growth that came at the expense of Delta and United mainline jobs. They even ran another class in Oct '01, followed by many more.

 

[Andy Neill]

I remember no such references so perhaps I was out of the room.

As far as needing pilots, I doubt that was the case as we were carrying reserve levels closer to 45% for months when we preferred something like 20%. United cut back our schedule significantly when flying resumed causing the bulge in reserve staffing.

The Oct class was probably CRJ transition and upgrade with no new hires (don't remember but it seems like it was some time before we hired again - current SKYW pilots could check that to see if there was a big gap in seniority dates around that time).

The comments I remember from the class that week were astonishment that they were not sent packing en masse.