SkyWest flying for US Air/ Americawest out of Pheonix

[Brasilia Flyer]

Mesa's contract is iron clad!

Either you:

(1) Haven't been in this industry very long

or

(2) Not the sharpest tool in the shed!

or

(3) BOTH

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The only thing that seems to be iron-clad in this business is a bonus plan for management that runs an airline into the ground. Just take a look at any legacy major airline.

 

[capt. megadeth]

The only thing that seems to be iron-clad in this business is a bonus plan for management that runs an airline into the ground. Just take a look at any lecacy major airline.

No doubt!

 

[Soverytired]

Ok, I may have taken the rhetoric up a notch too much, BUT . . .

Don't even go there, bro.

AWA has not hired as many pilots over the past 7-8 years while Mesa has so essentially I could say that we have lost jobs to you.

I want AWA flying done by AWA pilots.

By your "logic":

If the side of the plane says "AWA", then it must be flown by AWA pilots.

If the side of the plane says "USAir", then it must be flown by USAir pilots.

If the side of the plane say "Delta" or "Frontier" or "Northwest" . . . well, you get the idea.

YOUR STATED NIRVANA IS THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FEEDER CARRIERS EMPLOYING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ALPA PILOTS WHO HAVE WELL PAYING JOBS (yah, I said it, well paying jobs).

Respectfully, I disagree. Any regional pilot who supports you and bashes Mesa on this point is missing the bigger picture, which is mainline hates regionals. You have a built in "snob factor" which I find ridiculous . . . your plane is bigger, but your company is unprofitable . . due no doubt to the "evil regionals" who are somehow ridiculously expensive for the Major to employ (making the Major lose money) yet somehow also are driving down wages for all because they are so cheap (wages, op expenses, CEO compensation . . . .DP just got 6 million last year . . etc).

If Mesa should fall, you'll shift your attention to the next "evil low bidder".

 

[rtmcfi]

By your "logic":

If the side of the plane says "AWA", then it must be flown by AWA pilots.

If the side of the plane says "USAir", then it must be flown by USAir pilots.

If the side of the plane say "Delta" or "Frontier" or "Northwest" . . . well, you get the idea.

YOUR STATED NIRVANA IS THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FEEDER CARRIERS EMPLOYING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PILOTS WHO HAVE WELL PAYING JOBS (yah, I said it, well paying jobs).

Respectfully, I disagree. Any regional pilot who supports you and bashes Mesa on this point is missing the bigger picture, which is mainline hates regionals. You have a built in "snob factor" which I find ridiculous . . . your plane is bigger, but your company is unprofitable . . due no doubt to the "evil regionals" who are somehow ridiculously expensive for the Major to employ yet somehow also drive down wages because they are so cheap.

If Mesa should fall, you'll shift your attention to the next "evil low bidder".

Respectfully, I disagree. Whos work rules and pay scales would you rather be under, Mesa's, or mainlines? Those planes need pilots. Those tens of thousands of regional pilots could go work for the majors. At that point, they would be approaching a well paying job.

 

[Doug Parker]

You have a built in "snob factor" which I find ridiculous . . . your plane is bigger, but your company is unprofitable . . due no doubt to the "evil regionals" who are somehow ridiculously expensive for the Major to employ (making the Major lose money) yet somehow also are driving down wages for all because they are so cheap (wages, op expenses, CEO compensation . . . .DP just got 6 million last year . . etc).

It's that "Cost Plus" contract that hoses the parent - the COMMUTER or FEEDER or BOTTOM DWELLER airline makes $$ whether there is 1 pax or 50. The parent usually doesn't have much operational control over the COMMUTER or FEEDER or BOTTOM DWELLER as it does over it's own flights....ie canceling flights with low loads, etc.

PS - find out how much JO lined his pockets with last year.......




.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Respectfully, I disagree. Any regional pilot who supports you and bashes Mesa on this point is missing the bigger picture, which is mainline hates regionals. You have a built in "snob factor" which I find ridiculous . . . your plane is bigger, but your company is unprofitable . . due no doubt to the "evil regionals" who are somehow ridiculously expensive for the Major to employ (making the Major lose money) yet somehow also are driving down wages for all because they are so cheap (wages, op expenses, CEO compensation . . . .DP just got 6 million last year . . etc).

I think you're taking things a bit too personally. Put yourself in the shoes of a mainline pilot. While his future has become bleaker with paycuts, furloughs, and stalled career progression the regionals have been growing like crazy, adding aircraft, and taking over the same routes previously flown by the majors. In many cases 2 or more RJ are being used to carry passengers that could be carried more economically in a narrowbody mainline aircraft.

So what's led to this problem? We could start with deregulation. Add in a bunch of LCC's poaching off formerly profitable O&D routes. Mix in a lack of foresight by ALPA. And no discussion would be complete without mentioning the colossal blunders of mainline management.

Few things are really simple black and white situations.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

It's that "Cost Plus" contract that hoses the parent - the COMMUTER or FEEDER or BOTTOM DWELLER airline makes $$ whether there is 1 pax or 50. The parent usually doesn't have much operational control over the COMMUTER or FEEDER or BOTTOM DWELLER as it does over it's own flights....ie canceling flights with low loads, etc.

PS - find out how much JO lined his pockets with last year.......




.

Hoses the parent? Has little control? dude it's the parent co. that tells us what city to go to and how often a day to do it. I kinda liked the quote about "snob factor" too. If every city could support a larger aircraft there would not be RJ's.
(business 101).

I don't know about other regionals- but the load factors at SKW are almost always better than 50%. Putting money I'm sure in the "parents pocket". If not then the next months flying schedule gets reduced.

 

[BoilerUP]

I think most regional pilots (anybody under the top 25%) would rather be at the bottom of a mainline seniority list, flying RJs or TPs or whatever at our current pay scales, than wherever they happen to reside on a regional list. Even now, I'd say most everything is better under a mainline contract.

I have no problems with mainline trying to get their 90 seat flying, and I hope soon that 70 seat flying can be reclaimed, too. I don't want to see A SINGLE PILOT lose their jobs in that process (like what will happen between Compass & Mesaba) and I'd hope no mainline guys would want that either. We all have families & financial obligations. That being said, I don't think anybody wants a 50 seat RJ to be their final career stop if they have a choice in the matter...especially young pilots like myself.

Flame on.

 

[propjockey]

I don't know about other regionals- but the load factors at SKW are almost always better than 50%.

It seems like everywhere I want to go the loads are more like 85 - 100% all the time. I had to ride in the cockpit of a CR7 (66 seats) again this morning to get to work, and I think I was the only non-rev on the plane.

We're booked to 102% and 92% on my two legs today. And it's Wednesday. Can someone tell me again why ticket prices are so low?

 

[Fly-n-hi]

YOUR STATED NIRVANA IS THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FEEDER CARRIERS EMPLOYING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ALPA PILOTS WHO HAVE WELL PAYING JOBS (yah, I said it, well paying jobs).

Are you for real? If we reclaimed that flying those jobs would still exist. Instead of being Mesa they would be AWA/USAirways. In actuallity those jobs should have been over here in the first place. BTW, your loyalty to ALPA is so impressive.

Respectfully, I disagree. Any regional pilot who supports you and bashes Mesa on this point is missing the bigger picture, which is mainline hates regionals.

You don't get it and you are missing the "bigger picture". We don't hate the regionals nor do we hate the flight crews as you would have everybody believe. We hate the concept of regional airlines doing the flying that we should be doing.

You have a built in "snob factor" which I find ridiculous . . . your plane is bigger, but your company is unprofitable . .

Our company is unprofitable??? We had just made money nine quarters in a row before the aquisition of US Airways. It's clear that you really don't know what you are talking about. The only reason you're profitable is because of your conrtact with mainline. If you tried to operate as a stand alone airline you'd end up like Independence.

I'm a snob? You don't know me and you don't define who I am.

..due no doubt to the "evil regionals" who are somehow ridiculously expensive for the Major to employ (making the Major lose money) yet somehow also are driving down wages for all because they are so cheap (wages, op expenses, CEO compensation . . . .DP just got 6 million last year . . etc).

My argument has never been that the regionals are too costly to the majors. I don't know where you are coming from. My argument has been that I believe that if the plane says AWA or USAirways on the side our people should be flying it.

As far as the wages are concerned you are driving them down. Everytime XYZ airlines pilots accept a contract in which they fly for $17-$65 per hour that hurts the whole industry. Do you deny this?

If Mesa should fall, you'll shift your attention to the next "evil low bidder".

You don't see anyone trashing Air Wisconsin on here. Why do you suppose that is?

There's one thing you need to get straight. You work for a contract carrier. There is no job security in a contract carrier. When the contract is up you have 3 options: 1. Renew the contract 2. Get a new contract somewhere else or 3. Go out of business.

You get on here and basically tell me I'm heartless because I would like to see my airline grow. You basically claim that our growth would come at your expense. Well guess what? Your existence comes at our expense.

I think most regional pilots (anybody under the top 25%) would rather be at the bottom of a mainline seniority list, flying RJs or TPs or whatever at our current pay scales, than wherever they happen to reside on a regional list. Even now, I'd say most everything is better under a mainline contract.

I have no problems with mainline trying to get their 90 seat flying, and I hope soon that 70 seat flying can be reclaimed, too. I don't want to see A SINGLE PILOT lose their jobs in that process (like what will happen between Compass & Mesaba) and I'd hope no mainline guys would want that either. We all have families & financial obligations. That being said, I don't think anybody wants a 50 seat RJ to be their final career stop if they have a choice in the matter...especially young pilots like myself.

BoilerUP definitely has the bigger picture. Our contract is waaaay better (I came from a decent regional, BTW). It's night and day. And he's absolutely right when he says that the vast majority of regional guys would rather be at a mainline. Every single pilot that I talk to from both of my old regionals wants to get on with a major.

I started at XYZ regional with the intention of building turbine and PIC time for the sole reason of hopefully getting hired at a mainline operation someday. Now if those planes had been at mainline in the first place I could have avoided the whole regional scene. Yeah, I still would have started off on a RJ flying for peanuts but at least I would know that as soon as a vacancy became available on bigger and better paying equipment I could have bid up. The best your gonna do is a CRJ.

At many regionals when you fly a 50 seater thats as good as its gonna get. If those planes were at mainline flying a 50 seater would be the worst you could do. You could only move up.

I mainline reclaimed that flying today it's not like everybody would lose their jobs all of a sudden. Gradually the mailline flying would grow creating new jobs for those who wish to come over. Besides, the process would take several years.

Now I know someone will chime in and say "well its mainline's fault in the first place. They chose to scope out the flying." This is true. Now we have to fix those mistakes...which were made long before I was here.

 

[rtmcfi]

Fly-n-hi-

Well said!!!