Skywest FA makes Guy Pi$$ his Pants

[John Pennekamp]

Yeah, well they let him use the lav on the ground, so apparently it was not "officially" inop. How about working with mx on the ground, so you do not need to officially declare what you know to be a perfectly serviceable lav to be "inop". Use some common sense, for cripes sake.

By the way, any trouble caused by reasonably accomidating a pax who is obviously in distress is a fight I would gladly take on. "Cowboy", huh? Yeah, boy, I guess it is very dangerous to let a desperate pax use a flashlight in the lav. My bad.

For what it's worth, if the lav itself was truly broken, then I would not let anyone use it, as it would then be possibly dangerous (leaks, etc.) But, then, if at a Mx hub, don't take the plane. As far as delays, take the delay. I've been on NWA flts delayed over an hour, because they wanted to fix one broken lav, even though several others were still working. Good for them.

If you claim to have never ever in your life maybe not noticed something, like maybe a non-lit backup nav light on a day vfr flight, then you are either a liar, or one of those rare capt that everyone else hates flying with. Save the stones for your own glass house.

Airline flying is all about managing a very complex system to the utmost of your abilities, using skill, knowledge, experience, and common sense, while abiding to a rediculously complex set of regulations, containing sometimes contractictory guidance containing throughout several lengthy guidance manuals. I'm sure you could find something which would let you allow the pax to use a lav with a burnt out light. Grow up big man.

Clearly by the sentence you used to close your rant, you're incapable of having a rational discussission sans insults.

I have news for you. You do not have the authority to overrule a deferral, common sense or not. You have the authority to either insist the deferral is fixed or refuse the airplane.

Have I ever "not noticed" something minor? Of course. Have I ever intentionally used something that was deferred out of service? No. That's liability I'm not willing to shoulder. If you are, good for you.

 

[XJohXJ]

Oh, I'm sorry,

You don't consider "cowboy" to be an insult? How about accusing a guy of having insufficient concern for the well being of his family, (or pax)?

Have you ever heard of "emergency authority"? You think maybe you could use that to give a pax a flashlight and use what you know to be a perfectly working lav?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Oh, I'm sorry,

You don't consider "cowboy" to be an insult? Have you ever heard of "emergency authority"? You think maybe you could use that to give a pax a flashlight and use what you know to be a perfectly working lav?

Cowboy is an insult? I'm sure some would consider it a complement. I meant it as an adjective.

Now let me get this straight. You're going to declare an emergency to overrule the deferred lav and let a drunk "go" on a one hour flight? That's rich.

The original post was a question of a drunk and disorderly passenger acting badly, not a flightcrew issue. Get over it.

 

[trickle99]

"Airline flying is all about managing a very complex system to the utmost of your abilities, using skill, knowledge, experience, and common sense, while abiding to a rediculously complex set of regulations, containing sometimes contractictory guidance containing throughout several lengthy guidance manuals."

Long time lurker first time poster - but whoever wrote that is right on the money. Thank you.

 

[XJohXJ]

I apologize for the rancor. I did not read it as being about d+d pax. If I'm wrong, then I apologize. I read it as about a guy not being allowed to use the lav by an autocratic, snarly FA.

Who said anything about going on the radio and declaring an emergency? It is an internal procedure. There is a lot of reading between the lines when dealing with regs. All you have to do is: Let the guy use the lav, which everyone knows is a working lav. Get back to base. Fill out an ASAP: "the guy was desperate, possibly becoming disruptive. We felt the best course was to let him use the lav, despite the fact that the light was burnt out." Problem solved. If the co. agrees, new guidance is written. If they disagree, then they let the pilot know. Everyone moves on, no one is hurt.

Sorry about the rancor. Different interpretations of the situation happing here. Go back to your regular programming.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Who said anything about going on the radio and declaring an emergency? It is an internal procedure. There is a lot of reading between the lines when dealing with regs. All you have to do is: Let the guy use the lav, which everyone knows is a working lav. Get back to base. Fill out an ASAP: "the guy was desperate, possibly becoming disruptive. We felt the best course was to let him use the lav, despite the fact that the light was burnt out." Problem solved. If the co. agrees, new guidance is written. If they disagree, then they let the pilot know. Everyone moves on, no one is hurt.

I agree that would be a wise and reasonable course of action.

 

[belchfire]

I agree that would be a wise and reasonable course of action.

Yeah, right...management being wise and reasonable...I guess that's why Don Carty got a $62 Million dollar payout after beating down the AA unions! And some people act like JO is loaded with cash-jeeze! JLO is small potatoes compared to the real pros. He just likes to pretend otherwise with his motorcycle collection. If he was a real man he would collect matchlocks, art, gullwing Mercedes(s) and a Duesenberg or two!

Think of the money he could have made on Wall Street if he hadn't stepped on his crank being a petty thief!

 

[trip]

BOI-SLC is 40min in the air max, probably why this A/C was doing this flight. This guy must have had a problem. I allways make sure the F/A understands that the lav can be used in emergency's. Leave several bottles of water in there for that.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yeah, right...management being wise and reasonable...I guess that's why Don Carty got a $62 Million dollar payout after beating down the AA unions! And some people act like JO is loaded with cash-jeeze! JLO is small potatoes compared to the real pros. He just likes to pretend otherwise with his motorcycle collection. If he was a real man he would collect matchlocks, art, gullwing Mercedes(s) and a Duesenberg or two!

Think of the money he could have made on Wall Street if he hadn't stepped on his crank being a petty thief!

Well, I was actually referring to the person I was replying to in his solution to a bad hand management ineptitude dealt him. But I don't disagree with you in your point.

 

[flyingfool]

How about replace the friggin' lightbulb insead of deferring the whole lav?

It wasn't the FA that made him piss his pants it was the Cpt. If they didn't turn the seatbelt sign off in flight because the lav was inop due to a light then it must have been broken before they left. So He didn't call MX control and reset the circuit breaker, which works every time, or he could have mx change the light bulb. It was one of those we'll fix it salt lake things and now a guy pissed his pants. Reset the circuit breaker homo!

 

[erj-145mech]

Who wrote it up at an outstation with no MX? It still takes some one with authority to release it for service after you reset the breaker to clear the MEL. If you cannot MEL it, then the aircraft is unairworthy until it is repaired. That is in the FAR'S, and the CA has no authority to over ride this. Read block 13 on the airworthiness certificate. It is only valid if the aircraft is maintained in accordance with the FAR's, and thats where the MEL comes into play.

Any CA who blately disregards a MEL is totally unprofessional and deserves to be disqualified as a CA. It doesn't matter what that MEL is. Somebody with a higher paygrade and responsibility came up with this system, the CA's boss bought off on it, and it is policy. If you don't agree with the system, you are officially a "Cowboy", and should seriously consider another line of employment.

 

[Corbon]

I like the MEL's that give some some discretion to the captain as to whether the item can be used as is. Unfortunately, many times that discretion isn't part of the MEL. It either works perfectly or it's completely broke, according to the FAA. However, a crewmember can't be watching everyone all the time. Maybe the FA could have discreetly said "I understand your bladder is about to pop but the lav is not to be used...however, I'm going to go up to the galley and do some cleaning. I'll be back in 5 minutes. You'd better be in your seat..wink wink."

As far as ASAP, I'm under the impression that whatever it is you report cannot be intentional. I'd be afraid letting someone use an "inoperative" lav could be seen as a blatant disregard for the MEL and therefore not being accepted as an ASAP report. Now your protection is gone AND the FAA knows what you did.

 

[crashpad]

I would sue the living $hit out of Skyworst for this!!! And the pathetic excuse of a stewardess, too.

 

[MEL'ed]

"He closed the bag and laid it on the seat beside him."
How about ringing the call button and getting her to bring a trashbag to get rid of the bag. I know she doesn't want to mess with it, but it would have been a worse situation than just an inop lav if it fell off the seat. God forbid if he would have just left it on the seat as trash when he deplaned.

 

[Morning Wood]

A little common sense and CRM goes a long way folks. If the guy asked that many times, why didn't the F/A ask the captain to shut the seat belt sign off and let him use the lav? I honestly think if they had done that and then called the MOD and Inflight MOD when they got to SLC saying what they did, that would have been the end of it. This same thing happened about a year ago with a little kid that wasn't allowed to use the lav and he pissed all over a blanket and the seat. Does that sound like the best solution?

Instead, this has to turn into calling the cops and having the guy sue the airline.