Skywest/ASA

[PBRstreetgang]

Hello,
You guys wanna know who you are dealing with? Here is a link to the CEO, JA of Skywest Inc. talking to the faithful. if you wanna hear about the merging of the employee groups go to minute :37 and listen for a few minutes.
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.utah.edu/uec/utec/event_info.htm
It's just gonna be a matter of time.
PBR

[/FONT]

 

[zawillif]

Question. Most people talk of merging as a bad thing. In what ways is this a bad thing? Merging seniority lists usually sucks for the pilot group but any other reasons? It seems to me that most people are pissed at ASA management anyway. It would give us more aircraft options, possibly more bases other than Atlanta. To me it doesn't seem like the worst thing, but I've been wrong before.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
The company has stated over and over, "we will operate the companies as seperate entities" Here is some interesting historical info, as to the mentality of the people we are dealing with. ASA guys should be worried, B.Holt was hosed in the Sunair deal, since the two employee groups are dissimilar as far as collective bargaining is concerned, anything goes, staple, shuffle, smear, smash or whatever the managment group says. The 100K question, if the worst case scenarion happens to you(which ever group you may be), what are you gonna do? I personally do not know, have you thought about it? Everyone is big on speculation as to what is gonna happen, here is a free candid look at the "boss", go have a look.
PBR

 

[FL990]

Listen on though...

Jerry is a MATH guy. He is a finance guy. If it is cost beneficial for them to shift aircraft to skywest from ASA, they will do it, make no mistake about it!

My position is simple...we can't make those decisions. We have to negotiate a fair contract. We can't play concessions for growth because we don't have all the information and we can't believe what they tell us, because they will say anything, true or not, to get us to take a pay cut. If they move airplanes, so be it. We can't play the game of concessions for growth...NO PILOT GROUP HAS YET TO WIN WHILE DOING THIS!!!!

As for his alluding to mergers and consolidation in this speech, I think that the main difference between the current situation and the one he speaks of is labor groups. The ONLY incentive to not consolidating and merging the list is labor force or organized labor....and IT IS A BIG REASON. Whipsaw is there greatest counter attack...which again, is why we cannot play into this trap. By going along with concessions for growth, we are giving them the power.

 

[surplus1]

A merger would probably mean that Skywest will not be a non-union carrier anymore.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[ASADriver]

Anyone know the history with the SunAir merger? Were they union? What happened to the SunAir employees after the merger?

 

[FL990]

A merger would probably mean that Skywest will not be a non-union carrier anymore.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Actually, to speak in semantics...then and only then will we be a "TRUE UNION" regardless of the status of ALPA. Right now, we do not really have a union, since we represent on about 45 to 50 percent of the skywest inc flying. once a merger is complete, we will be able to set up a true union..even if without ALPA. with 4000 pilots, we could start an in house union, much like what American pilots have.

This is the entire concept of whipsaw summed up in the above paragraph. This is how MGMT has de-unionized the unions. It has worked so far. We must stop giving them fuel. ULTIMATELY, A COMBINED SENIORITY LIST IS THE WAY TO GO.

As for a staple, not gonna happen. With two virtually equal sized pilot groups, the costs would be horendous. To demote 1/2 of our pilots and train/type half of theres...what benefit does skywest INC get out of that???
Sure there pilots would be happy, and the other HALF of there pilots would be PISSED beyond comprehension, and many would walk...not all...but many, me being one of them.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
The video is for historical background. SKYW has always done whatever is the most cost effective and said what ever will ruffle the least feathers. My point is exactly that, the company is run by bean counters and all the decisions will be dictated by those basic concepts, regardless what is said. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
PBR

 

[ASADriver]

This was posted by one of our ALPA guys on the ALPA message boards. Sounds like management is already making plans to be able to transfer things.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf92/342424_web.pdf


http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf92/342425_web.pdf

 

[blueridge71]

I've been told that ASA/SW already combine purchasing to get economies of scale. Since they already realize savings that way, they havn't really been in a hurry to comine operations further, other than kicking ASA out of SLC.

I think that it is only a matter of time until JA realizes what a waste of space and money the ASA GO is though. At that point, a merger will be likely. I would bet on a blended list of some sort. I think that SW pilots are generally more junior than ASA. If there was a staple to the bottom, there would have to be fences to prevent a massive rebid of SW guys to ASA CA.

The big advantage to having separate companies is that SW doesn't have a united pilot group to contend with. If ASA gets too militant, we can always be sold again, either as a unit or piece by piece.

 

[FL990]

This was posted by one of our ALPA guys on the ALPA message boards. Sounds like management is already making plans to be able to transfer things.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf92/342424_web.pdf


http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf92/342425_web.pdf

ALPA would love for us to believe that the decision to transfer assets and growth has already been made...this would allow them to make the claim that (in the event we do get a decent contract) it (shift in aircraft)happened before the contract, therefore, the contract had nothing to do with it.

I don't like this tactic by the union. We can't play the same game as MGMT...the pilots need to trust what the union is saying...if the union play the same game as MGMT, then we will trust them as much as we trust MGMT. At that point, pilots will be voting on misinformation. We must be honest.

i don't think, personally, that the decision to give the 900's over to skywest airlines has been determined yet. I also do not believe that our contract is going to make that decision for them, but no one can say for certain. This is what the union should be saying, but they are already setting up there "excuse" speech, just in case they are wrong...In my opinon, this has a negative effect on there credibility.

i would like to point out a couple of paragraphs in the first document link though...:
look at paragraphs:

page 4 last full paragraph
Paragraphs numbered 5 and 6 on page 8

According to these paragraphs, ASA is going to remain a viable business

DON'T BUY THE COOLAID!! WE CANNOT TAKE CONCESSIONS FOR GROWTH

 

[79%N1]

In plain english, can someone summarize what this document is saying? Is Skywest taking all of ASA's international routes to Bahamas, Mexico and Monterrey?

 

[FL990]

In plain english, can someone summarize what this document is saying? Is Skywest taking all of ASA's international routes to Bahamas, Mexico and Monterrey?

NOOOOO!!!!

definitely not what this is saying.

It is simply saying that they wish to withold the right to transfer ASA international routes to skywest airlines. Nothing more.

For example, this would allow them to opperate the cabo route from SLC once the ASA base closes there.

 

[FL990]

Upon further review, I have discovered a little more:

The second link is simply a letter that requests ASA to operate the international routes under as a subsidiary of Skywest INC and not delta. Look at the dates, August of last year, they didn't want interuption of service to international cities. THat is all.

The first link, is the one that requests transfer of authority. All this does is allow Skywest airlines to bypass the entire process of applying for international routes and gives them joint authority to fly the same routes to the same countries that ASA has already been given aproval.

IT IN NO WAY REMOVES ASA AUTHORITY TO FLY THESE ROUTES!!!

It is a simple request to give joint authority on the basis of ownership...AGAIN, these requests were filled out a while back. Nothing to be alarmed about at all!!!

 

[SkyNation]

I've flown with and spoken to guys who are in the top 20 on the list here at SKYW. all of them seem to agree that SkyWest airlines ins Jerry's baby. He took it on and nurtured it all these years, making it what it is today. Jerry IS SkyWest, SkyWest IS Jerry. When it comes down to it, he is going to do what is fair, profitable, and beneficial FIRST to his baby, SkyWest (not necessarily in that order).

also, tell me again why we'd want to be ALPA? all I hear is constant bitching, moaning, complaining from the ASA guys on how things are going for them. and at the end of the day, I make more than my counterparts at ASA (told to me by different pilots on seperate occassions.) I'll make 49K this year at SKYW on 2nd year pay. an FO at ASA told me he makes 10K LESS on 3rd year pay.

someday people will figure out that we have it pretty good (comparatively speaking) here at SkyWest.

.
.
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(bracing for all the backlash telling me how I don't know what I'm talking about, Jerry is the boogeyman waiting/wanting to screw me, ALPA is the only way to go despite it's track record, blah blah blah blah...)

well, back to enjoying my life

 

[Flying Ninja]

People who own things can do what ever they want with it. So to answer your question zawillif, you're better off being on the buying side of the fence rather than being on the bought side of the fence. A buddy of mine was about to go left seat on a 757 until AA bought out TWA. The seniority list merged, and then they went to the chopping blocks. And guess who got chopped? Pretty much all of the TWA pilots got chopped. I'm not saying that's going to happen with the SkyWest/ASA situation. But make no mistake. You can talk all the talk all you want without putting anything in writing with a legal signature. SkyWest said they'll keep the 2 airlines separate. That's today. I doubt they gave a signed letter to everyone stating that is going to be the case forever.

 

[Smacktard]

I like the part that mentioned ASA's "Delta and other U.S carriers" flying.

 

[FL990]

I've flown with and spoken to guys who are in the top 20 on the list here at SKYW. all of them seem to agree that SkyWest airlines ins Jerry's baby. He took it on and nurtured it all these years, making it what it is today. Jerry IS SkyWest, SkyWest IS Jerry. When it comes down to it, he is going to do what is fair, profitable, and beneficial FIRST to his baby, SkyWest (not necessarily in that order).

also, tell me again why we'd want to be ALPA? all I hear is constant bitching, moaning, complaining from the ASA guys on how things are going for them. and at the end of the day, I make more than my counterparts at ASA (told to me by different pilots on seperate occassions.) I'll make 49K this year at SKYW on 2nd year pay. an FO at ASA told me he makes 10K LESS on 3rd year pay.

someday people will figure out that we have it pretty good (comparatively speaking) here at SkyWest.

.
.
.
.
(bracing for all the backlash telling me how I don't know what I'm talking about, Jerry is the boogeyman waiting/wanting to screw me, ALPA is the only way to go despite it's track record, blah blah blah blah...)

well, back to enjoying my life

Just a slight correction...SKYWEST INC is Jerry's baby and part of building skywest INC was the purchase of ASA. Jerry will ultimately do what is best for the corporation because he is a business guy, unlike many emotion driven pilots who would cut off there nose to spite there face. ASA is encompased by SKYWEST INC now, and he is not going to destroy it and the profitability of SKYWEST INC just to benefit skywest airlines.

Now, about this pay thing...YOU WILL MAKE HOW MUCH THIS YEAR?!?!?!

49K as a second year FO?? your hourly pay is roughly 35 an hour so that would mean you would have to fly 1400 hrs...400 hours over the FAA yearly maximum for 121 pilots.

EVEN AFTER duty rigs, premium, over block, profit sharing, and the money you make moonlighting as flame bait, I don't think 49k is realistic!!

GONNA have to call FLAME on the 49K!!

 

[Chairman]

I did 44k second year FO back in 2000. I am sure they are picking up some flying but that is not much of a streach. There is more to how we get paid then just the hourly rate.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Block and credit time are two different things.


AF

 

[Texx]

NOOOOO!!!!

definitely not what this is saying.

It is simply saying that they wish to withold the right to transfer ASA international routes to skywest airlines. Nothing more.

For example, this would allow them to opperate the cabo route from SLC once the ASA base closes there.

Not transfer to Skywest Airlines...Skywest INC.

And all the LAX Mexico routes applied for by ASA.

All the Carib. routes.

The only routes that Skywest Airlines is approved to fly is Canada.

 

[SkyNation]

49K comes from wages, Performace rewards and the ESPP. the latter two don't amount to much for me, but it does raise my 'Total Compensation.' there is a huge difference between block and credit, as was noted. As of 6/1 I was at 520 hours of CREDIT on 390 hours of BLOCK so far for 2006. By the end of June, or halfway through the year, I'll be at about 620 hours of credit. Multiply that by 2, add in Performance Rewards and ESPP profits (I just get my shares and sell them right away) and that's how I estimate 49K.

 

[Chairman]

I don't include ESPP in any earnings

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

ALPA would love for us to believe that the decision to transfer assets and growth has already been made...this would allow them to make the claim that (in the event we do get a decent contract) it (shift in aircraft)happened before the contract, therefore, the contract had nothing to do with it.

I don't like this tactic by the union. We can't play the same game as MGMT...the pilots need to trust what the union is saying...if the union play the same game as MGMT, then we will trust them as much as we trust MGMT. At that point, pilots will be voting on misinformation. We must be honest.

i don't think, personally, that the decision to give the 900's over to skywest airlines has been determined yet. I also do not believe that our contract is going to make that decision for them, but no one can say for certain. This is what the union should be saying, but they are already setting up there "excuse" speech, just in case they are wrong...In my opinon, this has a negative effect on there credibility.

FL990, I'm not sure I follow you anymore. Most people on here are easy to figure out if the believe ALPA or they don't. In the above post you seem to be sceptical of ALPA, but in other places you seem to trust ALPA. What am I missing?

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

I've flown with and spoken to guys who are in the top 20 on the list here at SKYW. all of them seem to agree that SkyWest airlines ins Jerry's baby. He took it on and nurtured it all these years, making it what it is today. Jerry IS SkyWest, SkyWest IS Jerry. When it comes down to it, he is going to do what is fair, profitable, and beneficial FIRST to his baby, SkyWest (not necessarily in that order).

also, tell me again why we'd want to be ALPA? all I hear is constant bitching, moaning, complaining from the ASA guys on how things are going for them. and at the end of the day, I make more than my counterparts at ASA (told to me by different pilots on seperate occassions.) I'll make 49K this year at SKYW on 2nd year pay. an FO at ASA told me he makes 10K LESS on 3rd year pay.

someday people will figure out that we have it pretty good (comparatively speaking) here at SkyWest.

.
.
.
.
(bracing for all the backlash telling me how I don't know what I'm talking about, Jerry is the boogeyman waiting/wanting to screw me, ALPA is the only way to go despite it's track record, blah blah blah blah...)

well, back to enjoying my life

Well said.... not of all of us drink the ALPA koolaid.

 

[ASARJMan]

Most people on here are easy to figure out if the believe ALPA or they don't. In the above post you seem to be sceptical of ALPA, but in other places you seem to trust ALPA. What am I missing?

What you're missing , Scotty boy, is no one believes any of your bullsheet, and you have no respect out on the line expect for those who have an agenda and are trying to use you to get that agenda. Figure out who they are, not too difficult. And it ain't Texx!

 

[ASARJMan]

Most people on here are easy to figure out if the believe ALPA or they don't. ?

Whaaat, you keeping a tally on how many bash ALPA here Scotty, huh?. So we're supposed to believe YOU, management, instead?

 

[BIGGOAT]

Skynation,

What will life be like after JA leaves? How will a different mgt. team treat the employees at that point?

 

[SkyNation]

Skynation,

What will life be like after JA leaves? How will a different mgt. team treat the employees at that point?

great question. I often wonder the same thing. Of course, no one knows and time will only tell. If they are smart, they'll do what he has done in order to keep us strong, solvent, and prepared for the future.

 

[Brasilia Flyer]

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