SkyWest ALPA

[DontFeedTheBear]

Is that just another thought or just another wish?

Why would a bankruptcy judge abrogate the labor protections of Allegheny-Mohawk at ASA if DAL files Ch11? Because it would benefit the Skywest pilots. Such a move would not solve anything at DAL and I very much doubt any judge preciding over a DAL Ch11 filing would see abrogation of ASA section 1 protections as key to DAL's restructuring. Most PWAs are renegotiated in BK, they are not unilaterally abrogated.

It's not a wish, don't make assumptions....You know what happens...

DAL could easily plead to a BK court that the language/contract is hurting/preventing the sale/price of one of it's wholly owned. Remember this is a BK court, only money and reorganizing plans count... A BK judge could order the language "renegotiated". What if? I'm just trying to make a point, in BK, contracts do not hold the same weight as in good financial times. If you don't believe me, just ask any U, UAL, AA, DELTA and NWA pilots. Two of them had the contracts and pensions "negotiated" by the courts and the other three conceeded in hopes that the concessions would be far better than a court "negotiation". Wake up and smell the cofee, we are not in control, nor are the contracts. The only way we could gain some control is for the pilot groups to unify...

Yogi

 

[Bluto]

I assume you guys are not flying 70 seat jets at 50 seat wages any more since your mgt. said it was just for 18 months. You are not, are you?

I assume you already know the answer to that, but if you don't, here it is. Yes, SkyWest is still flying 70-seaters at 50-seat rates. The TA expired in January, but negotiations have been slow and management has stated they have no plan to split the rates now. They have, however, offered minor improvements to work rules (2-hour reserve call-out, 4:10 daily guarantee, etc.) and a 1% raise. So they're giving something in return.

 

[FDJ2]

DAL could easily plead to a BK court that the language/contract is hurting/preventing the sale/price of one of it's wholly owned.

Here are some easy questions to answer, what would DAL's argument be that would justify breaking a contractual obligation DAL is not a party too, particularly a section that has no or at best limited economic value to DAL? Does DAL have a contract with the ASA pilots? What standing does DAL have in the ASA PWA if DAL is not a party to that PWA? Do the ASA pilots have a right to strike if the court abrogates their collective bargaining agreement and what do you think the likelihood of that job action would be?

It isn't a slam dunk that DAL could easily convince a judge to abrogate the contractual job protections of pilots DAL has no contract with, and even if DAL could, my bet is that the ASA pilots would immediately strike.

Unity starts by respecting each others collective bargaining agreements. Anytime a collective bargaining agreement is attacked, it weakens us all.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Here are some easy questions to answer, what would DAL's argument be that would justify breaking a contractual obligation DAL is not a party too, particularly a section that has no or at best limited economic value to DAL? Does DAL have a contract with the ASA pilots? What standing does DAL have in the ASA PWA if DAL is not a party to that PWA? Do the ASA pilots have a right to strike if the court abrogates their collective bargaining agreement and what do you think the likelihood of that job action would be?

It isn't a slam dunk that DAL could easily convince a judge to abrogate the contractual job protections of pilots DAL has no contract with, and even if DAL could, my bet is that the ASA pilots would immediately strike.

Unity starts by respecting each others collective bargaining agreements. Anytime a collective bargaining agreement is attacked, it weakens us all.

I guess you haven't seen what happens to contracts and collective bargaining agreements etc... when things go bad. Judges seem to let pensions of over 30,000 pilots go down the drain. Remember, these were what these pilots were counting on in the later years, when work is hard to find or physically impossible! If a judge will let that go, do you really think that they will uphold these labor agreements as long as DAL, ASA, Comair, and Skywest all agree to keep the group employed? As a wholly owned carrier, does the possible BK avoid ASA/Comair, or do you just become an asset? Look around you, do you see any mainline pilots striking? I didn't think so, so what would you do when your back is against the wall? I guess that job at Home Depot is looking better and better every day.

For the record I am a union supporter, but I realize that all of our backs are against the wall on this one. The one thing I can't stand is the spiteful mentality that unions tend to nurture. Only time is gonna tell on this one.

Another question is, what stops DAL from selling ASA or Comair as assets, w/o employees? I am sure management is working on this as we speak. I just hope I am very wrong in my scenarios!!!

Oh! and to answer your question, ASA management is a puppet on a string with DAL as the puppeteer! (Jst as all regional managements are) and don't forget what wholly owned means!!!

Yogi

 

[FDJ2]

I guess you haven't seen what happens to contracts and collective bargaining agreements etc... when things go bad. Judges seem to let pensions of over 30,000 pilots go down the drain. Remember, these were what these pilots were counting on in the later years, when work is hard to find or physically impossible! If a judge will let that go, do you really think that they will uphold these labor agreements as long as DAL, ASA, Comair, and Skywest all agree to keep the group employed? As a wholly owned carrier, does the possible BK avoid ASA/Comair, or do you just become an asset? Look around you, do you see any mainline pilots striking? I didn't think so, so what would you do when your back is against the wall? I guess that job at Home Depot is looking better and better every day.

For the record I am a union supporter, but I realize that all of our backs are against the wall on this one. The one thing I can't stand is the spiteful mentality that unions tend to nurture. Only time is gonna tell on this one.

Another question is, what stops DAL from selling ASA or Comair as assets, w/o employees? I am sure management is working on this as we speak. I just hope I am very wrong in my scenarios!!!

Oh! and to answer your question, ASA management is a puppet on a string with DAL as the puppeteer! (Jst as all regional managements are) and don't forget what wholly owned means!!!

Yogi

You'll have to tell me which 30,000 pilots have recently had their pensions taken away by a judge? I must have missed that one

I agree that mainline pilots haven't struck, but then again we're not talking about mainline pilots. As a whole mainline pilots have much more invested in their company than regional pilots and therefore have much more to lose and mainline pilots are generally older with less time to recover if the whole shooting match shuts down. Most regional pilots could easily find comparable work. Your talking about a hypothetical scenario where a judge abrogates the seniority list integration rights of a pilot group in order to facilitate a sell off and staple. Two questions, has this ever happened before and what would the ASA pilots have to lose by immediately striking?

I fully understand the relationship between ASA and DAL, regardless of the puppet-puppeteer relationship, the fact remains that ASA pilots have no contract with DAL and that does complicate the simplicity of just waving a magic wand and abrogating a CBA that DAL was not a party too. Certainly there are other pressures that can be brought down on the ASA pilots, but my guess is those pressures will be utilize to coerce pay and benefit reductions rather than Section 1 issues.

IMO, both ASA and CMR are up for sale at this time, but that sale will be done in order to prevent a Ch11 filing rather then to raise money in order to exit Ch11. Both Skywest and Chq have a vested interest in not seeing DAL enter Ch11 where their respective DCI contracts can be renogiated. while Skywest and Chq are indpendent companies, they are very dependent on DAL contracts. Also, Mesa may want to grab a part of the largest RJ network in the industry.

These are interesting times.

 

[damouse]

Having a Union on the property has its good points and its bad points, and the good points outweigh the bad ones. Although ALPA can't establish change at the Skywest level, they can be used for a type of checks and ballances between management and the pilots. This in itself may keep management more on the up and up. Where ALPA can establish change is at the national level, the big five. The problem here is ALPA only wants to establish policies that are conducive to the big five. You wont see ALPA promoting to congress any policy change meant to further the needs of the regionals, but you will see them manipulating the system to effect change in the industry that furthers the arogance of the big five. That is the way it always has been, and for now, the way it will be. We at our level are just not part of the club.

You make a really good point about who ALPA is working for. I, like an increasing number at pilots at SkyWest, have worked for both an ALPA carrier (another regional) and now a non-union carrier. While ALPA doesn't seem to make the regional airlines' interests their higher priority (think of who pays them the most dues) - they do afford a level of protection against work related issues that the SkyWest association can't provide with our current policy manual. I'm not bashing our pilot association in any way, but there certainly lies a conflict of interest in the way the whole entity is arranged. In regards to ALPA, It does kinda of suck to give up 1.5% of your pay, but I'll gladly fork that out knowing that if I make an honest mistake at work, there will be somebody on my side in the matter and not be at the sole mercy of the company.