SkyWest ALPA

[CF34-3B1]

Just curious;

What's the general feeling amongst the SW pilots about the possibility of bringing ALPA on the property?

Has there been any thought given to the possibility? I know the last union vote was defeated, but was fairly close.

Any input?

 

[Smoked Toilet]

Bring em on Baby! It's going to be a REAL close vote this spring.

 

[strega7]

Yes there is a small but VERY vocal group that is talking about another union drive here at SkyWest. They are quite unhappy with the pace (or lack of) in our new pay agreement and the decline of some QOL issues. They believe that a union will fix/help this situation. They are also looking for insurance in the event we purchase another ALPA carrier. I personally have not wanted an union in the past and believe I still don't. That said, they do have some very valid points that may make me climb the fence and be open to the idea. This will be my 3rd drive.

 

[711-24-7]

Change could be a good thing and a bad. We shall see.

 

[Illinois]

Many at Skywest don't respect organized labor. Most of these people claim to feel this way because they don't want to pay approximately 1.5% for protection they don't need anyway. You know...the infallible ones. What really floors me is that all at Skywest baulk at the paltry 1% the Co. is offering as a raise. If I won't see a 1% raise in my wallet, I should still be able to support my habits giving 1.5% away for legal/medical protection. Remember folks, eatin' crap food, and drinkin' a bunch of beer is hard on the ticker!

I don't want a union to interfere with SGU either. They need to be nimble, but protecting ourselves doesn't have to interfere with that. If voted in, isn't a Union what we and the Company make it?

 

[J32driver]

I don't want a union to interfere with SGU either. They need to be nimble, but protecting ourselves doesn't have to interfere with that. If voted in, isn't a Union what we and the Company make it?

A union is absolutely what you make of it. I've been at 2 ALPA carriers now. The first one, the company and union hated each other. The one I'm at now, Air Wisconsin, the Union and Company have a pretty good working relationship. The Union can be very nimble when it has to be. We created, voted on, and ratified a concesionary agreement in under 4 weeks when the Company convinced the Union there was no other alternative but to lose our flying.

How nimble the Union is depends almost entirely on how management chooses to handle it. They can make nice and have a good 2 way street... or they can choose to stonewall the Union just to prove that a Union is good for nothing. All depends on what the company wants.

 

[Doberman]

Seems like 1 union discussion per departure, you do the math. That's a lot of Union chatter.

 

[pianoman]

Your union is only as effective as the representatives you elect.

 

[Captain Overs]

Bring em on Baby! It's going to be a REAL close vote this spring.

It will still be a big "No". I heard the Kool-Aid in St. George taste great!

 

[InclusiveScope]

It will still be a big "No". I heard the Kool-Aid in St. George taste great!

The Kool-Aid from Herndon isn't tasting all that great.

 

[Captain Overs]

ALPA puts on a good show. I think there are many positives to having them on property. Mainly at the National level. I worked at a carrier with ALPA and without. I think our contracts were violated just as much. Don't buy their story about how great they will make your contract. They will say anything to get on property. Like I said, I think they are mainly an asset at the national level.

 

[Rogue5]

I think the vast majority of the pilots at SKYW have been on the fence, slightly to the side of "if we can do it this well without a union, so much the better for all involved."

In the past couple of years, especially after the "deal the ace" lie in the pilot group's collective face and repeated incrimental policy reinterpretations/changes ALWAYS favoring management, there has been a slight, though significant shift of that average position to the "well, the non-union thing isn't working. We need a legally binding contract and professional negotiators."

We didn't want this fight, but the "gentleman's agreement" has turned hollow, and I think you'll find most SKYW pilots voting to organize legal representation to protect themselves in the next round...

 

[storminpilot]

We didn't want this fight, but the "gentleman's agreement" has turned hollow, and I think you'll find most SKYW pilots voting to organize legal representation to protect themselves in the next round...

Protect yourself from what? You are working for one of the most financially stable airlines out there. Probably due to the way it is managed. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SKYW In fact, they are probably going to buy someone (ie ASA).

Let's see AirWisconsin pilots don't know if they have to pick up and move East to fly for U now. FLYI guys are looking at their airline burning up. CoEx flying will be up for bid in 2007. ASA and Comair guys are looking at their parent company filing bankruptcy. The PSA and Piedmont pilots are looking at their parent probably flaming out.

Right now long term employment and some stability are most important to me. Pay is great but if your company isn't there, it doesn't really matter. ALPA isn't going to fix all your ills.

 

[Bluto]

Protect yourself from what? You are working for one of the most financially stable airlines out there. Probably due to the way it is managed. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SKYW In fact, they are probably going to buy someone (ie ASA).

Let's see AirWisconsin pilots don't know if they have to pick up and move East to fly for U now. FLYI guys are looking at their airline burning up. CoEx flying will be up for bid in 2007. ASA and Comair guys are looking at their parent company filing bankruptcy. The PSA and Piedmont pilots are looking at their parent probably flaming out.

Right now long term employment and some stability are most important to me. Pay is great but if your company isn't there, it doesn't really matter. ALPA isn't going to fix all your ills.

Protection from continually eroding quality of life and work-rules, for one thing. It's easy to play chicken little when looking at the industry right now, but you've named a minority of the regionals that are encountering trouble. Nobody expects ALPA to be the answer to all SkyWest's problems, but to suggest it would solve nothing is ignorant.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Unions?

Having a Union on the property has its good points and its bad points, and the good points outweigh the bad ones. Although ALPA can't establish change at the Skywest level, they can be used for a type of checks and ballances between management and the pilots. This in itself may keep management more on the up and up. Where ALPA can establish change is at the national level, the big five. The problem here is ALPA only wants to establish policies that are conducive to the big five. You wont see ALPA promoting to congress any policy change meant to further the needs of the regionals, but you will see them manipulating the system to effect change in the industry that furthers the arogance of the big five. That is the way it always has been, and for now, the way it will be. We at our level are just not part of the club.

 

[CEO silly sap]

Now wont that be real nice when Skywest makes a bid for ASA.
With "ALPA" as the possible union representing both parties they would merge senority by alpa senority integration policy.

With out union representation, the skywest pilot group could make that integration by their own choosing, IE make it a positive for the Skywest pilots. Being the surviving carrier and all.


best advice is wait to bring a union on board until after the purchase.



safe flights.

 

[FDJ2]

With out union representation, the skywest pilot group could make that integration by their own choosing, IE make it a positive for the Skywest pilots. Being the surviving carrier and all.

Not necessarily. ASA pilots have a legally binding contract which specifically covers just such a situation and would be a condition of the sale. Although a list integration may not be required, if Skywest were to integrate seniority lists it would be done in accordance with the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Now wont that be real nice when Skywest makes a bid for ASA.
With "ALPA" as the possible union representing both parties they would merge senority by alpa senority integration policy.

With out union representation, the skywest pilot group could make that integration by their own choosing, IE make it a positive for the Skywest pilots. Being the surviving carrier and all.


best advice is wait to bring a union on board until after the purchase.



safe flights.

Sorry EL but you are incorrect above. FDJ is correct. Allegheny-Mohawk LPP would govern in this instance. If both carriers were ALPA, then the ALPA Merger Policy would govern. Furthermore, if Skywest were to buy ASA and operate them as a separate and independent subsidiary, there might not be any merger of any list whatsoever.

-Neal

 

[SSDD]

FDJ2,

I asked this on another thread and nobody answered. What is "fair and equitable?" DOH, 3 to 1, 5 to 1,...be happy to still have a job? I don't think Allegheny-Mohawk defines it.

I think that the buyout is not going to happen, or that if it did you wouldn't want a whole bunch of guys pissed off, but I can't find a definition.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Sorry EL but you are incorrect above. FDJ is correct. Allegheny-Mohawk LPP would govern in this instance. If both carriers were ALPA, then the ALPA Merger Policy would govern. Furthermore, if Skywest were to buy ASA and operate them as a separate and independent subsidiary, there might not be any merger of any list whatsoever.

-Neal

So in this senerio, what happens if SkyWest begins to slowly pull ASA out of markets and replace them with SkyWest?

I can see SkyWest doing that in SLC first, then slowly moving into CVG and ATL.


Also, is there a differece between a "merger" and a "buyout"?

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,

I asked this on another thread and nobody answered. What is "fair and equitable?" DOH, 3 to 1, 5 to 1,...be happy to still have a job? I don't think Allegheny-Mohawk defines it.

I think that the buyout is not going to happen, or that if it did you wouldn't want a whole bunch of guys pissed off, but I can't find a definition.

Black's Law Dictionary defines fair as "having qualities of impartiality and honesty; free from prejudice, favortism, and self interest. Just equitable; even handed." Equitable is defined as "just; comformable to the principles of justice and right."

Some things to consider, ASA is not a bankrupt company going out of business, it is a viable entity. The ASA pilots should not be lucky to "just have a job."They have one with a profitable and growing company.

So what is fair and equitable? That would most likely be determined by an arbitrator, but a good guess, considering that both companies fly relatively similar equipment with relatively similar pay providing small jet lift to mainline partners is that a merger of lists would protect each pilots relative seniority, seat and base. IOW, if you are in the top 15% of the Skywest list you would end up in the top 15% of the combined list and no pilot would be bumped out of his seat or base. IOW, no windfalls at the expense of the other pilot group.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Just a sinmple question..

Didn't TWA have merger/buyout language in the contract? When it all comes down to it, I think the surviving carrier will have the final say...Capitalism will always prevail. If you don't think that all 4 managements (SKY,DAL,CA,ASA) are not working on this, then everyone is drinking the Kool Aid. They are probably trying to figure out how to get around the union issues as we speak...

Yogi

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Didn't TWA have merger/buyout language in the contract? When it all comes down to it, I think the surviving carrier will have the final say...Capitalism will always prevail. If you don't think that all 4 managements (SKY,DAL,CA,ASA) are not working on this, then everyone is drinking the Kool Aid. They are probably trying to figure out how to get around the union issues as we speak...

Yogi

In order for the acquisition to go through, Carty mandated as a condition of sale that all TWA employees forego their rights to seniority.

-Neal

 

[TWA Dude]

In order for the acquisition to go through, Carty mandated as a condition of sale that all TWA employees forego their rights to seniority.

This is true but it also must be mentioned that had the TWA MEC not relinquished the successorship clauses Carty would've gotten his way through the bankruptcy court -- likely disadvantaging the TWA pilots even more.

To nobody in particular: So why must a pilot's worth be determined by the financial health of his/her employer?

 

[starshipdrvr]

Tim,

I would tend to disagree, as previously mentioned, your union is only as good as the reps that you elect to represent you. ALPA can and has affected change at the regional level. It will continue to affect change. What voting in representation in the name of ALPA will do for the SkyWest pilot group is:

1. Give us a real contract instead of a policy manual that is shot full of holes on a daily basis. That's not to say that the contract will not be violated but at least we have some recourse if it is.

2. Give us the resources to negotiate with SkyWest management. Unfortunately from my talks with SAPA representatives, management is not even interested in negotiating any further on pay and not that interested in talking about quality of live issues and where does that leave us? Do we have anything that we can do except tell them, "Thank you very much, I'm just glad I work at SkyWest."

Ultimately, a regional airline pilots union would be ideal but do you see us regional pilots being willing to drop our differences and put together an organization to represent ourselves? I don't. We continue to insist on in-fighting and continue to have feelings of superiority because we fly for different companies and as long as that continues, then ALPA is probably the way for SkyWest to go.

ALPA has put forward policy changes that help regional pilots as well as mainline pilots. There have been many increases in safety that we can thank ALPA for. The age 60 rule, if changed would affect (help or hinder depending on your goals) all pilots. ALPA is there to give individual MEC's the tools needed to succesfully negotiate with their respective managment.

Just my thoughts on the whole matter.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Next Question...

So if DAL does file bankruptcy, and they use a purchase of the wholly owned carriiers as a way for an immediate exit, do the contracts still apply? Or will the bankruptcy court override the Mohawk language? Just another thought...

Yogi

 

[FDJ2]

Didn't TWA have merger/buyout language in the contract?

The short answer is no.

 

[FDJ2]

So if DAL does file bankruptcy, and they use a purchase of the wholly owned carriiers as a way for an immediate exit, do the contracts still apply? Or will the bankruptcy court override the Mohawk language? Just another thought...

Yogi

Is that just another thought or just another wish?

Why would a bankruptcy judge abrogate the labor protections of Allegheny-Mohawk at ASA if DAL files Ch11? Because it would benefit the Skywest pilots. Such a move would not solve anything at DAL and I very much doubt any judge preciding over a DAL Ch11 filing would see abrogation of ASA section 1 protections as key to DAL's restructuring. Most PWAs are renegotiated in BK, they are not unilaterally abrogated.

 

[711-24-7]

Many at Skywest don't respect organized labor.........QUOTE]

Well than Sky west is doing right thing buying ASA atleast. The managment here doesn't know what organized labor means. It's Chaos I tell ya, Major Chaos.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I assume you guys are not flying 70 seat jets at 50 seat wages any more since your mgt. said it was just for 18 months. You are not, are you?