SkyWest Airlines Takes First Six CRJ900 Aircraft

[007]

Record PROFITS, and 1.2 %, remember that.

We have to stay competetive! With who?

Like I always say, you're already the cheapest whore in the whorehouse.

 

[JustaNumber]

ok Tomct, so you're saying that I should vote in ALPA so we can be in YOUR shoes? why the hell would we want to do that? misery wanting company? sour grapes?

Actually, what he's saying is you already ARE in his shoes, you just don't see that the sole is about to fall off. He's trying to warn you.

Your logic is flawed that ALPA representation causes the worst working conditions, and nonrepresentation creates the best work environment. It's actually the other way around, that hostile managements cause unions to form. Do you think for one minute that if Mesa voted ALPA out, Ornstein would suddenly make Mesa the best place to work in the industry? No, he would tighten the screws even more.

Yes, Skywest management has treated you reasonably well this far. But take a good look at who ASA's ultimate management is now. WE'RE WEARING THE SAME SHOES. If they can lie to us, they can lie to you. If they can cut our pay, they can cut your pay. If they can send our airplanes elsewhere, they can send your airplanes elsewhere. Representation with strong scope is the only way to combat all this. But if you wait too long to retain representation, you're s.o.l.!

Your argument is like saying, "most people in jail have lawyers, and I don't want to go to jail, so I'll never hire a lawyer." Even if someone is about to sue your shoes off. Think about it.

 

[SkyNation]

SKYWRJGUY,

I wasn't here when the TA passed. I had a lengthy talk with a guy on the Pay Committee who explained it to me that way, and it has since been explained to me again by others. A pay increase was implied, and of course we'd all like one, but it wasn't promised. Correct me if I'm wrong.

JustaNumber,

I understand your points. However, I'll say 'scoreboard' until something changes. While ALPA chicken littles love to preach doom and gloom and try to convice me that JA, BH et al are out to screw me, I just don't buy it. They are out to run the most successful, cost effective airline that they can. Their track record is impressive, and I would argue tops among the regionals. Jerry is where he is today because he is wise, adept, and has fostered relationships that pay dividends. If anything threatens to impede that success (which is ultimately my success), then I am against it.The results SkyWest has achieved speak for themselves, as I've posted before. Of course we all want more money, to work less, have better everything. I am glad to be where I am and I'm not convinced ALPA would make it any better. Looking around at what has happened at other regionals, it is hard for me not to believe that it could, in fact, make it worse.

"...democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms" -Winston Churchill

"SkyWest is the worst regional out there except for all the others"
-SkyNation

I dunno, guess I'm just a glass is half full kind of guy.

 

[Gobi Gred]

SkyNation, Don't put SkyWest or it's management on such a high pedestal. It's just a company and they're just businessmen like everyone else.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

ok Tomct, so you're saying that I should vote in ALPA so we can be in YOUR shoes? why the hell would we want to do that? misery wanting company? sour grapes?

look I want everyone to enjoy their company, have opportunities, make as much as possible, etc. I am happy where I am at. I would hope that everyone else is, as well. if they are not, they should go somewhere where they will be. many have come here.

I would not be surprised if JA and BH come to us the future for different rates on the 50. to respond to the market and remain competitive, one must constantly evaluate, shift, maneuver and so on. being non-union allows SkyWest to react quicker, and the results are clear. We've never furloughed a pilot, we have tons of cash on hand, and we continue to grow in a market that has been ravaged as of late. And in the end, I make as much or more than my counterparts at any other regional.

as for the 18 month TA, interpretation of what RR said has run rampant. What he basically said was 'do this and it'll be worth it to you.' You can read what we want into that as far as what 'worth it' means. I know that for a ton of guys it was well worth it because they had the chance to upgrade much, much sooner than had we not gotten that growth for United. some of them have already moved on thanks to that quick upgrade and PIC time (2 friends of mine, one to SWA and the other to FedEx). for many newhires, it was worth it as they got off reserve quickly. I admit it did little to change things for the senior guys, but from what I hear they are the ones who voted for it (pure heresay here). what some people heard is 'if you guys say yes to this in 18 months we'll give you a raise.' that was never said, but it has been argued to death that it was implied.

flame on. I still don't see why I have it so bad here.

oh well, back to enjoying my life

Uh....no, the ones that had brains voted against it senior and otherwise!

 

[sniper]

In the interest of full disclosure, I worked for a union carrier before coming to SkyWest, and freely admit that I do not like unions. In my opinion, they served a necessary function in the past. Now, they are like organized crime. They fill their constituents with a false sense of entitlement, emphasize "me too" herd mentality, and discourage all rational individual thought ("my MEC speaks for me!"). Unions almost always result in adversarial relations between pilots and management, and pilots and other employee groups. Yes, I know Southwest has done very well. They are an anomaly.

Tomct, while I respect your right to have a different opinion and harbor no ill will toward you or your fellow ASA pilots, I should think by now you would have figured out that ALPA cannot "make" JA do anything. Furthermore, I believe the troubles you are currently experiencing at ASA are precisely because you are "represented" by ALPA.

JA has said over and over again that SkyWest doesn't buy airlines; it buys assets. You guys go right ahead and burn your house down over there if you want. One, I don't believe the NMB will allow you to strike even if you have a 100% vote. Two, if the NMB allows a strike, I think JA would shut ASA down so fast it would make your head spin. I doubt many of us will mourn for you if you cut your own throats.

I happen to prefer the higher, blended rate we have at SkyWest. Even if it's a few dollars less than your vaunted 700 rates, it's still a few dollars better than your 200 rate, and beats the heck out of standing in the unemployment line.

I encourage you to think intellectually rather than react emotionally. Try to put yourself in our shoes. The grass is not greener on your side of the fence. Why should we want what you have? Why should we reject growth and the corresponding seniority advancements, opportunities for uprade, etc., that come our way because your union leadership is intransigent? Only the most obtuse would fail to realize that your comments are motivated by your own self interest. How can I fault you for that? My comments are likewise motivated by self interest. I am not willing to fall on my sword for you. You will notice that almost without exception, it is the ASA pilots crying for a unified pilot roster -- not SkyWest pilots. You guys are on your own. Your union made your bed for you; now lie in it. When/if your union leadership comes to its senses, I'm sure there will still be plenty of new aircraft for you at ASA.

If you want to be intellectually honest, I think you'll have to admit that we are better off at non-union SkyWest than you are at union ASA. I think you'd all be doing yourselves a favor to vote out ALPA and take the same "gentleman's agreement" that we enjoy here at SkyWest. It's not perfect. It's sometimes abused. But I believe it's the best thing going in the regional airline industry.

Meanwhile, I wish I could stop watching this ASA-train-wreck-in-slow-motion. Can anyone recommend a 12-step program to wean myself from flightinfo? With any luck, this will be my last post ever on this forum. And only morbid curiousity to see how often I am accused by "the other side" of being an idiot or a Kool-aid drinker will draw me back to read this stuff. I wish you all well.

Sounds like an ex Mesa pilot

 

[JustaNumber]

I understand your points. However, I'll say 'scoreboard' until something changes. While ALPA chicken littles love to preach doom and gloom and try to convice me that JA, BH et al are out to screw me, I just don't buy it.

And I understand your reluctance to believe that JA could do anything to screw you, given the track record so far. All I'm saying is he is looking out for the best interests of the shareholders, not your best interests, and if at some point you have to get screwed in the process, so be it. See ASA. And when that time comes, if you don't have representation at the time, you really will be screwed.

 

[Spicepilots]

SKYWRJGUY,

I wasn't here when the TA passed. I had a lengthy talk with a guy on the Pay Committee who explained it to me that way, and it has since been explained to me again by others. A pay increase was implied, and of course we'd all like one, but it wasn't promised. Correct me if I'm wrong.

JustaNumber,

I understand your points. However, I'll say 'scoreboard' until something changes. While ALPA chicken littles love to preach doom and gloom and try to convice me that JA, BH et al are out to screw me, I just don't buy it. They are out to run the most successful, cost effective airline that they can. Their track record is impressive, and I would argue tops among the regionals. Jerry is where he is today because he is wise, adept, and has fostered relationships that pay dividends. If anything threatens to impede that success (which is ultimately my success), then I am against it.The results SkyWest has achieved speak for themselves, as I've posted before. Of course we all want more money, to work less, have better everything. I am glad to be where I am and I'm not convinced ALPA would make it any better. Looking around at what has happened at other regionals, it is hard for me not to believe that it could, in fact, make it worse.

"...democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms" -Winston Churchill

"SkyWest is the worst regional out there except for all the others"
-SkyNation

I dunno, guess I'm just a glass is half full kind of guy.

Exactly. It's nice to hear someone else expressing rational thought. Let's not forget all the other threads on this board where ALPA pilots are bashing other ALPA pilots for undercutting, stealing flying, invading turf and generally being "bottom feeders". Who's to say that even if SkyWest voted in ALPA, that we wouldn't still have our new "brothers" at ASA accusing us of every sin under the sun. ALPA does not create a unified front across the regional landscape, it is still every man for themselves. P.S. We are not dancing in the street about the 900. We didn't even want the purchase of ASA to go through. Guess what? Just as ALPA is helpless from having their carrier bought by a non-union carrier, ALPA can't stop another ALPA carrier from doing ANYTHING, either. Being acquired for the exact cost of your assets sucks, but how much sympathy would you have for us if the situation were reversed. My guess is NONE.

 

[Tomct]

Well Spice, then I would say that you are WRONG!! If roles were reversed, it would make NO DIFFERENCE to me. I know that you think SKY is using "rational thought," but all I will say is....watch and learn! The shoe is about to drop and we (ASA) are not going to be the ones looking up when it comes down and goes SPLAT! I don't care if you guys vote in teamsters...whatever, just be in a position that does'nt allow JA the ability to IMPOSE anything on you!! It's that simple!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

All this time I thought the payrates were just the leftovers from a TA that expired a few years ago. Chances are you weren't there then but at the time the TA was approved nothing larger than a 50 seater was on the property. In fact it would be many months before the first 700 would show up.

It's the 50 seat rate. Only now it goes up to 99 seats.

Dave, come on, just because bigger planes weren't on the property then doesn't get you all off the hook for giving up separate rates that most everyone else negotiated (including ASA and Mesa). Your SAPA and group were duped, you actually believed that SKW management would give up a common 50-99 seat rate? Sorry, your excuse is invalid.

I can just see SKW and Delta management slobbering all over themselves figuring out a scheme to have Delta pilots give up more seat scope in your shiny new 900's. We'll talk er, scream more then.

I was making a sarcastic criticism of the TA not defending it or making excuses. Someone mistakenly called it a blended rate which it isn't. A blended rate would by definition be based on differing payrates and fleet mix.

 

[Muff-N-Man]

"...at our Salt Lake hub." Will they fly through ATL? If not then ASA was never going to see them to begin with!

There's the rub. If you looked at Charlie's first letter, it mentioned a "recent change in Delta's Network plans". They are just taking advantage of the situation to try to break us. It didn't work two years ago for Skip, we watched Comair get screwed with the same carrot, and it better not work for us. Pay cuts never equals airplanes.

Current book on the 70, 5% increase on the 50, that's my final offer.

Yes to a strike vote.

 

[Muff-N-Man]

so what you are all saying is that some day we will all be in the same boat as you-losing planes, taking pay cuts, life will suck, etc.

who knows? even if we are degraded to that point, we'll be at least 2% richer not paying for it.


thankfully, I'd estimate 7-8 out of 10 guys I fly with here feel the same. no chance 75% of the cards will come back endorsing ALPA, IMHO

That's the point, if somebody doesn't stop the slide, we're all screwed. In the managements dream, if they get cuts from us, you'd better bet they're coming to Skywest next. It's a whipsaw, baby. "to stay competative" is going to be the montra to bring everybody down to McDonalds' wages.

ALPA is not the answer to everything by a long shot, but it gives us some clout to stand up and say 'enough already'. I don't like unions, but look what happens to non-union airlines. I'm ready for a Regional Airline Association.

 

[blueridge71]

SkyWest Airlines Takes First Six CRJ900 Aircraft
A Fourth Aircraft Type

SkyWest Airlines is pleased to take the first six CRJ900s on order for SkyWest, Inc. Two jets will begin operating in September, with all six in service by November. SkyWest will fly the 900s under the Delta Connection banner at our Salt Lake hub.

What this Means for SkyWest
• SkyWest received the aircraft based on Delta’s needs comparable to market. The 900 represents an expanded role for SkyWest in Salt Lake City.
• The 900s maintain our values of excellent performance, passenger comfort and low operating costs, allowing us to better serve Delta.
• The 900s will allow us to reach further into new markets, giving Delta the flexibility and competitive cost aircraft they need in their Salt Lake hub.

Configuration
• The CRJ900’s spacious cabin will have ten Business Class seats and 60 Economy seats with 37- and 33-inch pitches, respectively.
• All-leather seating in two-by-two configuration
• Four crewmembers in-flight (two pilots and two flight attendants).

Under the FWIW category:
A SLC ramper told us that the 900s will be replacing Shuttle America's E170s. When taken together with the SW takeover of SLC, it seems pretty obvious that those 900s were never intended for ASA at all.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Your right mega, I should just bend over and SMILE while the company tries to SCREW US...all the while making RECORD PROFITS! That would be smart...RIIIIIIGHT! MMMMMKAYYYYY! That makes a lot of sense?

Nation all I can say is good luck! Anyone in it for a QUICK upgrade, better "RETHINK" that, cause there are a TON of guys with a LOT more PIC than just that super number of 1000! And guess what, THEY ARE STILL AT THE REGIONALS!! Yes, the regionals USED to be a stepping stone, but guess what? They aren't anymore!

Well, if you would chill for a second and actually think before you freak out and post, you may realize that is not what I was saying. Please quit putting words in my mouth.

Also, guess what? Half of the TON of guys at regionals are there because they are either too picky or too lazy to even fill out an application. Every guy that I know that actually tried to find a job has.