SkyWest Airlines Takes First Six CRJ900 Aircraft

[Dave Benjamin]

Mesa 900 pay for captains - 3 or 4 bucks an hour more than SKYW

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[John Pennekamp]

Hey propjockey, a 50 seat pay cut is coming your way GUARANTEED. SAPA's memo and talk in Skywest recurrent back it up. Tell us again how much
ALPA sucks and how good your gentleman's agreement is. Enjoy flying those big -900s for 50 seat rates. Think about how much money Atkin's family will make on that plane compared to yours. Got a wife or kids? Bet they'd love to get a raise? As SAPA when they'll get back to negotiations.

June 1, 2006
Fellow SkyWest Pilots,
During our May meeting in Colorado Springs, I reported to your
Representatives that there has been no recent progress in pay negotiations.
When we last attempted to discuss pay with Brad Holt, he let us know that the
company will not consider pay proposals at this time. Accordingly, it is the
consensus of your Representatives that we inform you that we are shifting our
focus from pay negotiations, to working toward quality-of-life improvements.
The reason given is the need to keep SkyWest’s costs low, so we can
remain competitive to attract new flying and retain the contracts we have with
Delta and United. Ron Reber or Brad Holt may release a statement explaining
their cost concerns. SAPA will offer further comment, after that statement is
released.
SAPA’s Pay Committee will continue its work to maintain a current plot of
SkyWest’s position, in comparison to other carriers, of basic hourly rates and key
quality-of-life measures. A spreadsheet of this data will be posted for you to
access at www.sapapilot.org.
Please feel free to contact me or any SAPA Representative with your
comments and questions via SWOL. Also, many of our phone numbers are
posted under the ‘contact’ button at the Web site, www.sapapilot.org.
On behalf of your Representatives:
Dave Alden SMF Rich Hayes SBP
Jim Black SLC Aaron Levy COS
Mike Eisenstat SLC Dave Livingston COS
Kathy Archibald SAN Mark Nolin SLC
Brian Austin FAT Kirk Peterson ORD
Jesse Batha ORD Shaun Regan DEN
Dave Bechtold SLC Bill Schlueter DEN
Jim Brink TUS Jeff Soper SFO
Bob Donohoe SMF Mike Spencer SLC
Mike Griggs SLC Bryan Young TUS
SkyWest Airlines Pilot Association
Dave Alden, President

 

[atrdriver]

If you want to be intellectually honest, I think you'll have to admit that we are better off at non-union SkyWest than you are at union ASA. I think you'd all be doing yourselves a favor to vote out ALPA and take the same "gentleman's agreement" that we enjoy here at SkyWest. It's not perfect. It's sometimes abused. But I believe it's the best thing going in the regional airline industry.

Yes, right now you are better off than we are. But tell me what happens when JA or his successor walks into the pilot lounge and announces that he is cutting pay 15% across the board, eliminating min day, and getting rid of CNX pay? What is there to stop him from doing that? In case you are wondering, there is NOTHING stopping him from doing that. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it could, and if it ever does, you will wish you had a binding contract.

And if you really believe that SKY isn't next in line after ASA you are fooling yourself.

 

[D'Angelo]

Yes, right now you are better off than we are. But tell me what happens when JA or his successor walks into the pilot lounge and announces that he is cutting pay 15% across the board, eliminating min day, and getting rid of CNX pay? What is there to stop him from doing that? In case you are wondering, there is NOTHING stopping him from doing that. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it could, and if it ever does, you will wish you had a binding contract.

And if you really believe that SKY isn't next in line after ASA you are fooling yourself.

Being non-union makes a company much more flexible and therefore more competitive. I guarantee this. If skywest does vote in ALPA it is an automatic paycut for sure. Skywest pilots are enjoying all the benefits of being non union.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Amen to that! This is getting stupid! We are all in the race to the BOTTOM...what a shame this industry has become. It's almost criminal.

Let's not forget the major airline pilots that were too good to fly RJs when they first came out. If they would have gotten off their high horse for just a second, I bet regionals would be smaller, majors would be bigger and most people flying an RJ would be on a seniority list at a major airline. I would say they definitely helped the race to the bottom.

 

[asayankee]

Yes, right now you are better off than we are. But tell me what happens when JA or his successor walks into the pilot lounge and announces that he is cutting pay 15% across the board, eliminating min day, and getting rid of CNX pay? What is there to stop him from doing that? In case you are wondering, there is NOTHING stopping him from doing that. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it could, and if it ever does, you will wish you had a binding contract.

And if you really believe that SKY isn't next in line after ASA you are fooling yourself.

JA has stated NUMEROUS times that Skywest is too expensive on the 50. How are all you guys gonna feel when he cuts the 50 pay. Now, your flying 90/70 seaters at 50 pay, and 50 seaters for turbo-prop pay. "We have to stay competitive with our competition"....Well hey, guess who your competition is in this little game????? Give up? It's ASA. After he weasels some pay/QOL from our agreement, do you really think he'll just leave you guys alone? I see in your future letters from your supervisor stating the dynamic and ever-changing needs of Delta and now 15-20 50 seat jets are being transferred to the lower-cost option in ATL. "We must remain competitive".

Have fun with that guys!!!

 

[SkyNation]

so what you are all saying is that some day we will all be in the same boat as you-losing planes, taking pay cuts, life will suck, etc.

who knows? even if we are degraded to that point, we'll be at least 2% richer not paying for it.

until I see another airline that pays better (all bonuses and incentives or lack thereof included), with bases where I want to live, who is competitive, successful and growing, I can't get too stoked about buying an expensive magazine subscription just to be 'in the club.'

thankfully, I'd estimate 7-8 out of 10 guys I fly with here feel the same. no chance 75% of the cards will come back endorsing ALPA, IMHO

 

[John Pennekamp]

so what you are all saying is that some day we will all be in the same boat as you-losing planes, taking pay cuts, life will suck, etc.

who knows? even if we are degraded to that point, we'll be at least 2% richer not paying for it.

until I see another airline that pays better (all bonuses and incentives or lack thereof included), with bases where I want to live, who is competitive, successful and growing, I can't get too stoked about buying an expensive magazine subscription just to be 'in the club.'

thankfully, I'd estimate 7-8 out of 10 guys I fly with here feel the same. no chance 75% of the cards will come back endorsing ALPA, IMHO

A little bird told me that the ALPA organizers already have more than enough cards to get the NMB to take a vote. That requires at least 35%. So you'd be wrong about your "7-8 out of 10 guys". I'm betting that ALPA has 75% of the pilots cards by Fall.

 

[SkyNation]

I'll take that bet, for the reasons I stated above.

I ask everyone I fly with, which now with PBS ends up being someone different each week. Only a few are of the antiquated mentality that ALPA will somehow come here and bang their fist on Brad's desk demanding a raise and then deliver.

times are different, those who can't/won't evolve are doomed to loose flying, take cuts, etc., etc.

maybe the little bird told you that lots have signed up for info on the site, or maybe that a very few have continued to litter cockpits with their little cards?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I'll take that bet, for the reasons I stated above.

I ask everyone I fly with, which now with PBS ends up being someone different each week. Only a few are of the antiquated mentality that ALPA will somehow come here and bang their fist on Brad's desk demanding a raise and then deliver.

times are different, those who can't/won't evolve are doomed to loose flying, take cuts, etc., etc.

maybe the little bird told you that lots have signed up for info on the site, or maybe that a very few have continued to litter cockpits with their little cards?

Yeah... and 90% of Delta pilots will tell you they voted against that "crap TA". Peer pressure does funny things.

It's not smart to openly discuss the union right now at Skywest unless you're an organizer. Since you seem to be in their faces asking union questions, they probably suspect you're a management mole and tell you what you want to hear.

 

[D'Angelo]

so what you are all saying is that some day we will all be in the same boat as you-losing planes, taking pay cuts, life will suck, etc.

who knows? even if we are degraded to that point, we'll be at least 2% richer not paying for it.

until I see another airline that pays better (all bonuses and incentives or lack thereof included), with bases where I want to live, who is competitive, successful and growing, I can't get too stoked about buying an expensive magazine subscription just to be 'in the club.'

thankfully, I'd estimate 7-8 out of 10 guys I fly with here feel the same. no chance 75% of the cards will come back endorsing ALPA, IMHO

I think enough people are starting to see the light that a union is not the end all solution to the problems of the industry. Its good to see someone finally standing up to ALPA and saying we don't need you. We can do this ourselves. As long as 50%+1 vote against it then the day is saved. Why do they need 75% of the cards? You only need 35% to hold a vote. If they already have enough cards to hold a vote then why hasnt this vote happened yet? They are probably just caving into peer pressure from other airlines. If they had the 35% of the cards you can believe they would be holding an election already. They want to get on property asap and start stealing your pilots money. Good luck guys! If I could change one thing I would go back and work for a non union airline like skywest. Id love to be out on the west coast. It wasnt meant to be however and im staying by my roots in NYC. Im not going to let some union try and force me to leave.

 

[HoserASA]

D'Angelo This message is hidden because D'Angelo is on your ignore list.</SPAN>

 

[rptrain]

I happen to prefer the higher, blended rate we have at SkyWest. Even if it's a few dollars less than your vaunted 700 rates, it's still a few dollars better than your 200 rate, and beats the heck out of standing in the unemployment line.

As someone who has suffered the unemployment fate as a consequence of similar actions, I can assure you that your statement is untrue. There is life beyond $19.02/hr, and it's not bad at all. Stop being afraid and stand up for yourself, Poindexter.

 

[SkyNation]

mole, me?!! hilarious.

nope, just casual conversations I have. I've spoken with the 'main' guy who gave me his honest pitch. I'm not against the ALPA guys, I just disagree with them. Reasonable people can disagree.

I do find it curious that some of the biggest flag wavers are leaving SkyWest for JetBlue-who is not ALPA. also, most of them piss and moan about the 70 wages, but fly it all the time by choice.

in the end, some things suck at SkyWest, yes. However, all things considered, I think we have it as good or better than any other regional. The positives far outweigh the negatives. I would wish the same feelings towards ones company on anyone.

 

[strega7]

John said:

A little bird told me that the ALPA organizers already have more than enough cards to get the NMB to take a vote.

There are no cards yet. Get your facts straight! The only thing the OC has is a list of people who have registered for information from the SkyWest ALPA site. Soon the "cards" will be sent to see if there is enought interest in ALPA. IF enough come back then the NMB can be petitioned. Having been burned twice in the past, ALPA is going to want alot more than just 35% this time.

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] Registering does not represent support. When the time comes you may, if you so choose, send in a petition card. If and when the NMB is petitioned with those cards, you can vote. Registering on the site allows the OC to verify you are a SkyWest pilot asking a question which relates to SkyWest, not a Flightinfo.com CFI throwing flame bait.

Registering on ALPA's site or the OC site means no more than that you are willing to get educated.[/FONT]

Fly Safe

 

[Crossky]

All this time I thought the payrates were just the leftovers from a TA that expired a few years ago. Chances are you weren't there then but at the time the TA was approved nothing larger than a 50 seater was on the property. In fact it would be many months before the first 700 would show up.

It's the 50 seat rate. Only now it goes up to 99 seats.

Dave, come on, just because bigger planes weren't on the property then doesn't get you all off the hook for giving up separate rates that most everyone else negotiated (including ASA and Mesa). Your SAPA and group were duped, you actually believed that SKW management would give up a common 50-99 seat rate? Sorry, your excuse is invalid.

I can just see SKW and Delta management slobbering all over themselves figuring out a scheme to have Delta pilots give up more seat scope in your shiny new 900's. We'll talk er, scream more then.

 

[Morning Wood]

I have a feeling that if the pilot group stood up and said "70 and 76 seat pay rates, or you will have a union on site faster than you can shart yer pants," that they would get their way...

Maybe. But the tough talk ain't working for ASA so I don't think it's
going to float anywhere else. If a union showed up tomorrow,
what's to stop JA from starting an alter-ego operaton ala G-Jets?
You guys can't see beyond the end of your nose.

 

[Papa Woody]

Configuration
• The CRJ900’s spacious cabin will have ten Business Class seats and 60 Economy seats with 37- and 33-inch pitches, respectively.

What happened to "we don't dictate the marketplace"?

How about "the aircraft really should be flown with 90 seats, but since we're scared of mainline pilot unity, and Skywest pilots have no unity, we still come out ahead since we're only paying those weaklings to fly a 50-seater anyway."

 

[Morning Wood]

Yeah... and 90% of Delta pilots will tell you they voted against that "crap TA". Peer pressure does funny things.

If 90 percent of the Delta pilots said they voted no, 50 percent of them
would be lying through their teeth.

 

[Morning Wood]

mole, me?!! hilarious.


I do find it curious that some of the biggest flag wavers are leaving SkyWest for JetBlue-who is not ALPA. also, most of them piss and moan about the 70 wages, but fly it all the time by choice.

Exactly. One of whom I understand got turned down recently.
Watch him really wave the flag now.

 

[Morning Wood]

Actually, the pay at hte majors is based on the equipment type and not how many seats the company installs in them...CRJ 900 is a 90 seater but pay should be based on the crj 900 not 76 seats. EX. 737 pay is based on the series and not how many seats are installed. 737-800 at DL is missing 6 coach seats for F/A requirments...does that mean a 737 pilot shuld fly the same airplane for a lower rate? It only has 148 total seats when it could have 154. SKYW pilots are bascally going to fly a 90 seat airplane for 50 seat rate....Great job....It is official SKYW is screwing the regional pilots right to et paid for the equiment they fly and not the scope they fly under!

How about CO and AS that get a rate based on seniority and not
on equipment type? What's the difference?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Maybe. But the tough talk ain't working for ASA so I don't think it's
going to float anywhere else. If a union showed up tomorrow,
what's to stop JA from starting an alter-ego operaton ala G-Jets?
You guys can't see beyond the end of your nose.

That is why we must have scope that binds the parent company - WAKE UP FOLKS

 

[John Pennekamp]

D'Angelo This message is hidden because D'Angelo is on your ignore list.</SPAN>

Anger! Fear! Lies!

 

[John Pennekamp]

John said:

There are no cards yet. Get your facts straight! The only thing the OC has is a list of people who have registered for information from the SkyWest ALPA site. Soon the "cards" will be sent to see if there is enought interest in ALPA. IF enough come back then the NMB can be petitioned. Having been burned twice in the past, ALPA is going to want alot more than just 35% this time.


Fly Safe

You're right. Thanks for clearing that up. That bird looked suspicious, LOL.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yeah... and 90% of Delta pilots will tell you they voted against that "crap TA". Peer pressure does funny things.

If 90 percent of the Delta pilots said they voted no, 50 percent of them
would be lying through their teeth.

Uh.... yeah, that's the point.

 

[Tomct]

Well Prop, we will see what happens! I promise you that JA will be coming at you with a paycut, trying to tell you how "we HAVE to have it" and all you will be able to do.....oh yeah, NOTHING!

Skynation you might want to look at that "Gentlemans Agreement" that was suppose to last only what....18 months and you are now on month what....32? Its going to happen to you guys again here shortly when he gives you a paycut and you have NO POWER to do anything about it! But hey, atleast you got all those neat 900's to fly around!

 

[SkyNation]

ok Tomct, so you're saying that I should vote in ALPA so we can be in YOUR shoes? why the hell would we want to do that? misery wanting company? sour grapes?

look I want everyone to enjoy their company, have opportunities, make as much as possible, etc. I am happy where I am at. I would hope that everyone else is, as well. if they are not, they should go somewhere where they will be. many have come here.

I would not be surprised if JA and BH come to us the future for different rates on the 50. to respond to the market and remain competitive, one must constantly evaluate, shift, maneuver and so on. being non-union allows SkyWest to react quicker, and the results are clear. We've never furloughed a pilot, we have tons of cash on hand, and we continue to grow in a market that has been ravaged as of late. And in the end, I make as much or more than my counterparts at any other regional.

as for the 18 month TA, interpretation of what RR said has run rampant. What he basically said was 'do this and it'll be worth it to you.' You can read what we want into that as far as what 'worth it' means. I know that for a ton of guys it was well worth it because they had the chance to upgrade much, much sooner than had we not gotten that growth for United. some of them have already moved on thanks to that quick upgrade and PIC time (2 friends of mine, one to SWA and the other to FedEx). for many newhires, it was worth it as they got off reserve quickly. I admit it did little to change things for the senior guys, but from what I hear they are the ones who voted for it (pure heresay here). what some people heard is 'if you guys say yes to this in 18 months we'll give you a raise.' that was never said, but it has been argued to death that it was implied.

flame on. I still don't see why I have it so bad here.

oh well, back to enjoying my life

 

[capt. megadeth]

Skynation,
Don't try to reason with someone that is unreasonable....it is futile.
Cheers,
Mega

 

[Tomct]

Your right mega, I should just bend over and SMILE while the company tries to SCREW US...all the while making RECORD PROFITS! That would be smart...RIIIIIIGHT! MMMMMKAYYYYY! That makes a lot of sense?

Nation all I can say is good luck! Anyone in it for a QUICK upgrade, better "RETHINK" that, cause there are a TON of guys with a LOT more PIC than just that super number of 1000! And guess what, THEY ARE STILL AT THE REGIONALS!! Yes, the regionals USED to be a stepping stone, but guess what? They aren't anymore!

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Ahh...

SkyNation:

You're a SkyWest guy? I think you might have missed the boat on the logical rationale behind a vote to 'freeze'.

We voted only on per hour pay rates, the 'contingency factor' in making the 70 thing happen; the planes would have come with or without the pro-vote. Logically, though it is arguable not everything SKYW does fits that bill, that if we were voting to freeze something for a period of 18 months, than at the end of that 18 months the freeze would no longer be in effect, and new rates were to be dictated/negotiated. Had there not been a time arrangement, then I suppose the freeze thing was implied as indefinite--alas, that was not the case. What did you expect to happen after 18 months, ceteris paribus in a rational system?