SkyWest Airlines Takes First Six CRJ900 Aircraft

[Rogue5]

Tex, you are right! I wish they would "Get Their's," but I think they have a few too many SJS guys over there at skywst. The majority of their pilot group should be pissed about their 18 mos contract...agreement...lasting what...36mons now? HOW can you guys NOT vote in the union? I hope that they FINALLY see the LIGHT! Only time will tell.

You have no idea of what the sentiment of the SKYW pilot group is.

Thanks for wishing us ill though, I know a great many of us (at least on our side) realize we are in this together...

 

[Rogue5]

Actually, the pay at hte majors is based on the equipment type and not how many seats the company installs in them...CRJ 900 is a 90 seater but pay should be based on the crj 900 not 76 seats.

While I agree with your sentiment, your facts are incorrect:

A CRJ900 is a CL65 type, as is a CRJ700 and a CRJ200...

 

[Tomct]

Rogue, I HOPE that you are right! I would LOVE to see you guys vote in the union and make JA "FINALLY" pay you guys what he should have been doing for a long time. Good Luck!

Look at Continental's pay rates for the 700, 800 and 900. They are the same type, but two different pay scales. The 8/9 make more money because they seat a lot more! FYI!! Type should NOT matter, the seating capacity is what matter's. Fly Safe!

 

[atrdriver]

Type should NOT matter, the seating capacity is what matter's. Fly Safe!

Seating cap and overall weight.

 

[Tomct]

Thank You ATR!

 

[propjockey]

In the interest of full disclosure, I worked for a union carrier before coming to SkyWest, and freely admit that I do not like unions. In my opinion, they served a necessary function in the past. Now, they are like organized crime. They fill their constituents with a false sense of entitlement, emphasize "me too" herd mentality, and discourage all rational individual thought ("my MEC speaks for me!"). Unions almost always result in adversarial relations between pilots and management, and pilots and other employee groups. Yes, I know Southwest has done very well. They are an anomaly.

Tomct, while I respect your right to have a different opinion and harbor no ill will toward you or your fellow ASA pilots, I should think by now you would have figured out that ALPA cannot "make" JA do anything. Furthermore, I believe the troubles you are currently experiencing at ASA are precisely because you are "represented" by ALPA.

JA has said over and over again that SkyWest doesn't buy airlines; it buys assets. You guys go right ahead and burn your house down over there if you want. One, I don't believe the NMB will allow you to strike even if you have a 100% vote. Two, if the NMB allows a strike, I think JA would shut ASA down so fast it would make your head spin. I doubt many of us will mourn for you if you cut your own throats.

I happen to prefer the higher, blended rate we have at SkyWest. Even if it's a few dollars less than your vaunted 700 rates, it's still a few dollars better than your 200 rate, and beats the heck out of standing in the unemployment line.

I encourage you to think intellectually rather than react emotionally. Try to put yourself in our shoes. The grass is not greener on your side of the fence. Why should we want what you have? Why should we reject growth and the corresponding seniority advancements, opportunities for uprade, etc., that come our way because your union leadership is intransigent? Only the most obtuse would fail to realize that your comments are motivated by your own self interest. How can I fault you for that? My comments are likewise motivated by self interest. I am not willing to fall on my sword for you. You will notice that almost without exception, it is the ASA pilots crying for a unified pilot roster -- not SkyWest pilots. You guys are on your own. Your union made your bed for you; now lie in it. When/if your union leadership comes to its senses, I'm sure there will still be plenty of new aircraft for you at ASA.

If you want to be intellectually honest, I think you'll have to admit that we are better off at non-union SkyWest than you are at union ASA. I think you'd all be doing yourselves a favor to vote out ALPA and take the same "gentleman's agreement" that we enjoy here at SkyWest. It's not perfect. It's sometimes abused. But I believe it's the best thing going in the regional airline industry.

Meanwhile, I wish I could stop watching this ASA-train-wreck-in-slow-motion. Can anyone recommend a 12-step program to wean myself from flightinfo? With any luck, this will be my last post ever on this forum. And only morbid curiousity to see how often I am accused by "the other side" of being an idiot or a Kool-aid drinker will draw me back to read this stuff. I wish you all well.

 

[Gobi Gred]

Propjockey, What happens when there is a leadership change at SkyWest? Jerry is not exactly in his twenties. The problem with the "gentleman's agreement" is that things you currently enjoy (and probably take for granted as most SkyWest pilots do) such as minimum daily guarantee, block or better, pay for cancellations, etc. could be gone tomorrow. "Well then we'll just get a union" (typical fence sitter or anti union response) By then it is too late! I would probably agree that SkyWest pilots have it better than many unionized carriers. Just remember that many of the things that SkyWest pilots enjoy are a result of what was gained at other carriers by their unions. And when you get the chance ask a senior SkyWest pilot how they got minimum daily guarantee. (Hint: it wasn't management's idea)

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I happen to prefer the higher, blended rate we have at SkyWest.

When did SkyWest get a blended rate? I didn't know about that. Nobody tells me these things. Congratulations! When does it go into effect?

All this time I thought the payrates were just the leftovers from a TA that expired a few years ago. Chances are you weren't there then but at the time the TA was approved nothing larger than a 50 seater was on the property. In fact it would be many months before the first 700 would show up.

It's the 50 seat rate. Only now it goes up to 99 seats. Nothing blended about it. Want something blended then go have yourself a margarita.

Oh and one other thing. Your short time at Great Lakes or wherever you flew the 1900 probably doesn't give you quite the whole picture of ALPA.

 

[TX_DFW]

Lets look at those great payrates again

CRJ FO CAPT
1 19 56
2 35 58
3 36 60
4 37 61

needless to say you guys really need to grow a pair and not fly a 900 for 50 seat pay

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Lets look at those great payrates again

CRJ FO CAPT
1 19 56
2 35 58
3 36 60
4 37 61

needless to say you guys really need to grow a pair and not fly a 900 for 50 seat pay

Amen to that! This is getting stupid! We are all in the race to the BOTTOM...what a shame this industry has become. It's almost criminal.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Mesa 900 pay for captains - 3 or 4 bucks an hour more than SKYW

59
61
63
65

 

[John Pennekamp]

Hey propjockey, a 50 seat pay cut is coming your way GUARANTEED. SAPA's memo and talk in Skywest recurrent back it up. Tell us again how much
ALPA sucks and how good your gentleman's agreement is. Enjoy flying those big -900s for 50 seat rates. Think about how much money Atkin's family will make on that plane compared to yours. Got a wife or kids? Bet they'd love to get a raise? As SAPA when they'll get back to negotiations.

June 1, 2006
Fellow SkyWest Pilots,
During our May meeting in Colorado Springs, I reported to your
Representatives that there has been no recent progress in pay negotiations.
When we last attempted to discuss pay with Brad Holt, he let us know that the
company will not consider pay proposals at this time. Accordingly, it is the
consensus of your Representatives that we inform you that we are shifting our
focus from pay negotiations, to working toward quality-of-life improvements.
The reason given is the need to keep SkyWest’s costs low, so we can
remain competitive to attract new flying and retain the contracts we have with
Delta and United. Ron Reber or Brad Holt may release a statement explaining
their cost concerns. SAPA will offer further comment, after that statement is
released.
SAPA’s Pay Committee will continue its work to maintain a current plot of
SkyWest’s position, in comparison to other carriers, of basic hourly rates and key
quality-of-life measures. A spreadsheet of this data will be posted for you to
access at www.sapapilot.org.
Please feel free to contact me or any SAPA Representative with your
comments and questions via SWOL. Also, many of our phone numbers are
posted under the ‘contact’ button at the Web site, www.sapapilot.org.
On behalf of your Representatives:
Dave Alden SMF Rich Hayes SBP
Jim Black SLC Aaron Levy COS
Mike Eisenstat SLC Dave Livingston COS
Kathy Archibald SAN Mark Nolin SLC
Brian Austin FAT Kirk Peterson ORD
Jesse Batha ORD Shaun Regan DEN
Dave Bechtold SLC Bill Schlueter DEN
Jim Brink TUS Jeff Soper SFO
Bob Donohoe SMF Mike Spencer SLC
Mike Griggs SLC Bryan Young TUS
SkyWest Airlines Pilot Association
Dave Alden, President

 

[atrdriver]

If you want to be intellectually honest, I think you'll have to admit that we are better off at non-union SkyWest than you are at union ASA. I think you'd all be doing yourselves a favor to vote out ALPA and take the same "gentleman's agreement" that we enjoy here at SkyWest. It's not perfect. It's sometimes abused. But I believe it's the best thing going in the regional airline industry.

Yes, right now you are better off than we are. But tell me what happens when JA or his successor walks into the pilot lounge and announces that he is cutting pay 15% across the board, eliminating min day, and getting rid of CNX pay? What is there to stop him from doing that? In case you are wondering, there is NOTHING stopping him from doing that. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it could, and if it ever does, you will wish you had a binding contract.

And if you really believe that SKY isn't next in line after ASA you are fooling yourself.

 

[D'Angelo]

Yes, right now you are better off than we are. But tell me what happens when JA or his successor walks into the pilot lounge and announces that he is cutting pay 15% across the board, eliminating min day, and getting rid of CNX pay? What is there to stop him from doing that? In case you are wondering, there is NOTHING stopping him from doing that. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it could, and if it ever does, you will wish you had a binding contract.

And if you really believe that SKY isn't next in line after ASA you are fooling yourself.

Being non-union makes a company much more flexible and therefore more competitive. I guarantee this. If skywest does vote in ALPA it is an automatic paycut for sure. Skywest pilots are enjoying all the benefits of being non union.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Amen to that! This is getting stupid! We are all in the race to the BOTTOM...what a shame this industry has become. It's almost criminal.

Let's not forget the major airline pilots that were too good to fly RJs when they first came out. If they would have gotten off their high horse for just a second, I bet regionals would be smaller, majors would be bigger and most people flying an RJ would be on a seniority list at a major airline. I would say they definitely helped the race to the bottom.

 

[asayankee]

Yes, right now you are better off than we are. But tell me what happens when JA or his successor walks into the pilot lounge and announces that he is cutting pay 15% across the board, eliminating min day, and getting rid of CNX pay? What is there to stop him from doing that? In case you are wondering, there is NOTHING stopping him from doing that. I'm not saying that it will happen, but it could, and if it ever does, you will wish you had a binding contract.

And if you really believe that SKY isn't next in line after ASA you are fooling yourself.

JA has stated NUMEROUS times that Skywest is too expensive on the 50. How are all you guys gonna feel when he cuts the 50 pay. Now, your flying 90/70 seaters at 50 pay, and 50 seaters for turbo-prop pay. "We have to stay competitive with our competition"....Well hey, guess who your competition is in this little game????? Give up? It's ASA. After he weasels some pay/QOL from our agreement, do you really think he'll just leave you guys alone? I see in your future letters from your supervisor stating the dynamic and ever-changing needs of Delta and now 15-20 50 seat jets are being transferred to the lower-cost option in ATL. "We must remain competitive".

Have fun with that guys!!!

 

[SkyNation]

so what you are all saying is that some day we will all be in the same boat as you-losing planes, taking pay cuts, life will suck, etc.

who knows? even if we are degraded to that point, we'll be at least 2% richer not paying for it.

until I see another airline that pays better (all bonuses and incentives or lack thereof included), with bases where I want to live, who is competitive, successful and growing, I can't get too stoked about buying an expensive magazine subscription just to be 'in the club.'

thankfully, I'd estimate 7-8 out of 10 guys I fly with here feel the same. no chance 75% of the cards will come back endorsing ALPA, IMHO

 

[John Pennekamp]

so what you are all saying is that some day we will all be in the same boat as you-losing planes, taking pay cuts, life will suck, etc.

who knows? even if we are degraded to that point, we'll be at least 2% richer not paying for it.

until I see another airline that pays better (all bonuses and incentives or lack thereof included), with bases where I want to live, who is competitive, successful and growing, I can't get too stoked about buying an expensive magazine subscription just to be 'in the club.'

thankfully, I'd estimate 7-8 out of 10 guys I fly with here feel the same. no chance 75% of the cards will come back endorsing ALPA, IMHO

A little bird told me that the ALPA organizers already have more than enough cards to get the NMB to take a vote. That requires at least 35%. So you'd be wrong about your "7-8 out of 10 guys". I'm betting that ALPA has 75% of the pilots cards by Fall.

 

[SkyNation]

I'll take that bet, for the reasons I stated above.

I ask everyone I fly with, which now with PBS ends up being someone different each week. Only a few are of the antiquated mentality that ALPA will somehow come here and bang their fist on Brad's desk demanding a raise and then deliver.

times are different, those who can't/won't evolve are doomed to loose flying, take cuts, etc., etc.

maybe the little bird told you that lots have signed up for info on the site, or maybe that a very few have continued to litter cockpits with their little cards?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I'll take that bet, for the reasons I stated above.

I ask everyone I fly with, which now with PBS ends up being someone different each week. Only a few are of the antiquated mentality that ALPA will somehow come here and bang their fist on Brad's desk demanding a raise and then deliver.

times are different, those who can't/won't evolve are doomed to loose flying, take cuts, etc., etc.

maybe the little bird told you that lots have signed up for info on the site, or maybe that a very few have continued to litter cockpits with their little cards?

Yeah... and 90% of Delta pilots will tell you they voted against that "crap TA". Peer pressure does funny things.

It's not smart to openly discuss the union right now at Skywest unless you're an organizer. Since you seem to be in their faces asking union questions, they probably suspect you're a management mole and tell you what you want to hear.