SKW/ACY Unite

[Sinca3]

Well said Surplus.....I just wish it was as easily accomplished as said.
Cheers

 

[~~~^~~~]

Good post Surplus

 

[atlcrjdriver]

WWW, again you bore me, wake me when you can answer my question.

Surplus1, excellent post, be it that we both join under ALPA or on our own we should join to negotiate under one collective bargaining agreement.

 

[www.]

WWW, again you bore me, wake me when you can answer my question.

Surplus1, excellent post, be it that we both join under ALPA or on our own we should join to negotiate under one collective bargaining agreement.

And your about as funny as Carl Childree.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

WWW, Wasn't trying to be funny, you really are boring me. It also appears you may have adult ADD so I will repeat the question for you. If I, as a line pilot, don't have the right to question what is going on then who does?

 

[www.]

WWW, Wasn't trying to be funny, you really are boring me. It also appears you may have adult ADD so I will repeat the question for you. If I, as a line pilot, don't have the right to question what is going on then who does?

I never said you didn't just like you have the right to question MGMT.

Maybe that's your problem. Your emotions are getting the best of you.

Bye, Bye !

 

[atlcrjdriver]

WWW, I may be wrong on this but it appears that any time anyone says anything to question the CNC they are attacked. I have problems with what is proposed on both sides of the table but I don't know of anyone at the GO reading much less responding on this board. I have on the other hand seen at least P2Ps that read and reply on this board. So, why question the mgmt side here when they aren't here to reply?

Fly Safe...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

WWW, Wasn't trying to be funny, you really are boring me. It also appears you may have adult ADD so I will repeat the question for you. If I, as a line pilot, don't have the right to question what is going on then who does?

You are not a line pilot.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

You are not a line pilot.

Well crap, all those PCs and LOFTs were for nothing.
Thank you for making my point loud and clear...

Fly Safe...

 

[Redan]

As is obvious from my avatar, I don't work for SKYW or ASA, but I do have a dog in the hunt, since whatever we do individually ultimately affects us all. My group has already been forced by circumstances beyond our control to recognize that we cannot ignore everyone else and stand alone. It just doesn't work. We established a benchmark at one time. We have lost it because no one followed suit for very long. Ultimately we had to give it up too or not survive. Smell lthe coffee!

From my perspective, on the day that you each discoverd that Skywest Holdings would become the owner of two operating certificates, the number one priority of your group leaders should have become the objective of uniting the two groups into a single entity. That, in my opinion, is far more important than any contract or agreement that either of you negotiates separately.

When ASA and CMR were purchased we tried to do that. We did not fail because of disagreement between ASA and CMR. We failed because DAL pilots would not agree with either of us. It hurt them and it hurt us.

You do not have the obstacle of an unreasonable mainline pilot group to overcome. It's just the two of you. If CHQ could do it, why can't you?

I advise you to set aside petty differences and squabbles and do what is in your long-term collective best interest. Marry each other. It doesn't matter which one of you is "uglyiest", the wedding is imperative!

Becayse ALPA is already a certified "labor union" and SWAPA is not, the easiest way to do this would have been to all join the ALPA. It still is.

If you are not happy with ALPA, it is a lot easier to change unions after you are a single group than it is to form a single group and then seek new certification.

Tomnorrow you may have the resources to form and independent union. Right now, time is of the essence and you do not. Get together first. Choose which union you like best later. The priority is UNITY, not semantics, rhetoric and divisive politics.

This issue is nothing more than getting your collective priorities straight. The fact is that until all of the pilots employed by subsidiaries of Skywest Holdings, Inc. are united on a single seniority list, you both can and will be played against each other; like a cheap harmonica.

ASA may be "in the barrel" today with an open and unsettled contract. SKYW has no contract at all and is therefore completely subject to the whims (literally) of management.

The Skywest group may "think" they have a better deal today, but the fact is that what they have tomorrow will depend on what happens at ASA and what ASA has/gets will depend on what happens at Skywest. Like it or not, you are both in the same bed. Unless you become consenting adults and marry, you're both going to get the proverbial shaft.

Unless you work as one unit the fact is you will both be screwed. The only question is when and to what extent!

Surely you have leaders in both groups with the smarts to realize that whatever differences you may have with each other can be resolved in your collective best interest by you, and will NOT be resolved in either of your best interests by management.

The function of management is to resolve issues in the best interest of management; NOT in your best interest. There is no need to be angry with them for doing their job. It is YOUR job, together, to take care of YOUR best interests. As long as you are not united you are not doing your job.

It is NOT a question of being adversarial or benign in your relationship with your management. The important issue is your joint survival!

There is absolutely NO WAY to reasonably guarantee your joint survival as two separate airlines operated by one company. You will both become the pawns of that company's management whoever it might be now or in the future. You already are and it is up to you to fix that.

I can't even imagine how or why you don't seem to recognize that fact.

Your unity on a single seniority list should be your number one priority!

For your own sake, sit down together and work it out! Whatever you do, don't get hung up on the relatively petty issue of how you merge your lists.

There are any number of ways to achieve DOH, which would ultimately benefit every one of you, without causing any displacements or burdening your company with monumental training costs.

Forge an internal agreement with each other and reduce it to wiriting. Then organize under a single representative banner (I suggest ALPA initially for the sake of convenience) and get it done. If you're smart about it you WILL be able to force your management to accept a single list. Be creative, but get it done.

You do not have to make one airline out of two. You DO have to make ONE BARGAINING UNIT and ONE SENIORITY LIST.

Your future depends on it! It will not benefit either one of you to remain separate and it does not benefit either of you to be non-union.

You don't have to "like" unions! You do have to be sensible. Either you hug each other voluntarily or you will be shafted individually and involuntarily.

JMO

Accolades and superlatives Surplus for your pinpoint accuracy. If George Washington could bring together thirteen colonies, each with countless individual interests, in order to deal with a common threat, we can certainly accomplish it here. The SKW and ASA groups have much more in common than many seem to recognize or acknowledge. And our differences really are nowhere near insurmountable. The benefits of unity between our groups measure tenfold against the petty squabbles debated so often on this board.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Try convincing a SkyWest pilot that joining ALPA is the right thing to do. And why should they- knowing they make more money, are getting the growth, and are the saving grace of ASA pilots because their company bought ours.

An ALPA initiative would fail again. I guarantee that. They'll be flying 95 seat airplanes for a 50-seat rate, and they'll still be comparing their W2's to an ASA pilot's. "See, we make more than you! Why should we vote in a union?!"

 

[www.]

WWW, I may be wrong on this but it appears that any time anyone says anything to question the CNC they are attacked. I have problems with what is proposed on both sides of the table but I don't know of anyone at the GO reading much less responding on this board. I have on the other hand seen at least P2Ps that read and reply on this board. So, why question the mgmt side here when they aren't here to reply?

Fly Safe...

Ah but they are here. They are everywhere. You just don't know which ones they are.

If you have issues about the CNC, go to your rep and tell them. They also are on this board.

 

[surplus1]

Try convincing a SkyWest pilot that joining ALPA is the right thing to do. And why should they- knowing they make more money, are getting the growth, and are the saving grace of ASA pilots because their company bought ours.

An ALPA initiative would fail again. I guarantee that. They'll be flying 95 seat airplanes for a 50-seat rate, and they'll still be comparing their W2's to an ASA pilot's. "See, we make more than you! Why should we vote in a union?!"

Skywest pilots should not join ALPA because ALPA is a "good deal", they should do it because it is in their best interest and, in the current circumstance, ALPA is the quickest and easiest route.

ASA pilots should stop throwing rocks at Skywest pilots and touch and kiss instead. Why? Because it is in their best interest to do so.

This is a marriage that should be based on "sex"; the love part will come later.

The basic concept is that it is better for both Skywest and ASA pilots to get laid (with each other) voluntarily than to get shafted separately by the same dude. Your "union" may not produce perfect bliss and pretty babies but it is a far better option than having to dispose of empty tubes of KY and doctor bloody butts.

ThiMk!