Situation at AWAC

[daamazin]

Anyone care to comment/explain what the f*ck ALPA has been doing? How is it they manage to pin regionals against one another, and a major partner with one of their strongest regionals? How can they represent both sides of the coin and do nothing to stop any of this? Tell me again guys...are they protecting my job or United's a$$?? Which one is it?

That probably pissed off a bunch of pro ALPA guys, but this pilot, for one, is done with believing in the power of that union. Screw them. I want my 2% back! I'm going to need it in a few months when mesa and chautauqua are flying all AWACs routes...

 

[CaptRob]

You should check out the RJDC.

While the RJDC people are an extreme faction, they would agree with you.

 

[General Lee]

Why blame ALPA? UAL is in Chap 11 and they are demanding lower pay outs to their regional partners. They LOST about $80 million due to their current regional contracts. They want to lower that number and come out of bankruptcy. Can you guys NOT see that? What can ALPA do that a judge can't throw away? A judge is in charge over there.....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

Well, you have to admit that there is a big conflict of interest between the majors/legacies and their regional partners under one ALPA banner... ALPA is not about to protect the interests of smaller regional carrier pilots when it has to also protect more lucrative major carrier pilots. There should be separate unions representing regional and non-regional pilots in my opinion to truly protect the interests of members. Or am I just smoking cr@ck?????????????

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I don't know if youze a blazin the rock, but ALPA has always needed someone to sacrifice. How can you negotiate those awesome contracts at mainline without giving up anything. Well, that would be where the regionals come in. Now since the inception of the new generation of "small jets" (see ALPA always has a way to separate us "fairly"), its kicking them in the arse. Management can replace mainline service and with better frequency and cost. Management wins, pilots lose; ALPA keeps their monopoly, but for how long???

 

[Thrust Master]

ALPA and the UAL pilot group are at the root of this one.

The UAL pilot group attributed along with ALPA at putting
UAL into bankruptcy. This begin prior to 9/11 when
Goodwin was the CEO. The UAL pilot group managed and
were successful at getting the CEO they wanted in order
to get the pay raises they wanted.

To say this didn't contribute to UAL's Chapter 11 would be
nonsense. As a pilot at AWAC I can say this. We took cuts,
big cuts. As I see what is in development as of yesterday.
Why should we have further cuts. Air Wisconsin didn't go
into bankruptcy but was willing to vote a concessionary
agreement in record time.

This was not only to insure AWAC jobs for the future, but
our committment to UAL in assisting there emergence from
Chapter 11. The AWAC pilot group was flat out lied to, as was
every other employee at this company.

Since our concessions last year this company has been bringing
in every loser to run it. They all coming from bankrupt airlines.
The writting has been on the walls for some time.
It's been very apparent when you have the most educated
employee group coming up with wonderful ideas in cost savings
and they go on deaf ears. I know that our in house Rep's have
had meetings with the owners and Mgt. on a number of things
regarding cost savings. And they just say NO. no excuse why,
just flat out were not going to do that.

Since the inception of TSA, starting as of last year all airlines
must post there profits and be made public. Even if the company
is private as is the case for Air Wisconsin. Since this time, and
as of this year, Air Wisconsin will profit from $80-90 million.
How Frick'n ironic are those numbers...

I'm still waiting to here back from my senators and congressman
in my state as to how UAL could spend $250 million on (AVOLAR)
two used planes(worth less than 35 million) and a 135 certificate.

People in charge, CEO,COO,CFO, ALPA Leadership have to be held
accountable in these times. If they aren't. We will all be screwed
without the convience of a little KY. And I'm not talking state.

Thrust Master

 

[BE99chick]

I have a dumb question...

What exactly is it about AWACs cost structure that makes us so expensive???? I keep hearing that we are the most expensive feeder out there...why?

The company is based in Appleton, WI...that's got to be cheaper that Chicago, Milwaukee, Memphis, Minneapolis, Denver or God forbid, LA. (Although maybe not cheaper than St. George, Utah...).

The pilots/FAs/Mechanics/CSAs don't make outrageous salaries. Rampers are paid less than a prison pays inmates to work in the laundry room.

We pay the same price for gas/de-icing/oil/hydraulic fluid/parts as everybody else. We offer the same sad-a$$ snacks on board as everybody else, and now some flights don't even offer a drink service.

We don't pay anybody to come in to clean the airplane after each leg, the Flight Attendants and pilots pick up and cross the belts.

We certainly don't have a "state of the art" computerized company...we still have manual sign-ins where you actually sign a book so somebody can come in and get the book and check that a crew is "signed-in".

We don't have any fancy terminals, ramp equipment, GPUs, etc...the same stuff as everybody else. Delta Global Services owns the stuff in IAD and we contract out with them in IAD and at some stations like ORF.

God knows we don't overnight in any palaces...same cra--ppy hotels as everybody else.

We don't have a pension plan, just a 401K that the company contributes a little to. We don't have a super-duper health plan. Our work rules aren't that great, although they are better than other carriers, but not much.

We have the same stinky old crew room furniture and nasty refrigerators.

The DOT website (search Air Wisconsin) shows quite a profit structure for this company, consistantly.

So what is it? Why are we SOOOOO expensive? What am I missing? I'm not a smart person, so I'm sure someone can enlighten me. I know I'm missing something.

And on another note....

I know that our in house Rep's have
had meetings with the owners and Mgt. on a number of things
regarding cost savings. And they just say NO. no excuse why,
just flat out were not going to do that.

Thrust Master

"No is company policy...start likin' it". David Spade...for BankOne.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

UAL is seeking further paycuts from their own pilots. Quit with the ALPA conspiracy theory already. I don't think UAL managment needed ALPA to come up with the idea of hammering AWAC. They've already squeezed the other UAX carriers with the help of the McBain group. This is just another costcutting measure - no more and no less. It's not ALPA's job to negotiate codeshares between airlines, only to assist in negotiations between pilot groups and managment. Should AWAC managment pursue consessions the AWAC pilots will have the benefit of ALPA's Economic and Financial Analysis office.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hello,
It's really quite simple, mainline-regional it's all the same work.
Planes, passengers, bags ect. the job skills are all aprox. the same.
Pilots, F/A's, rampers all work in the same environment, why should a company pay one of the above categories 5-8 times(mainline pilot) the wages as another(regional pilot). As I have said numerous times, in multiple posts, wages, on average can either go up or down. When airline managment looks at salaries their goal is to pay as little as possible, they see mesa and drool. I don't think many airline ceo's think hmmm, lets pay our pilots like they are Delta pilots. Whereas most 1900 drivers think hmmm,"I will work for slave wages and it will be worth it when I hit the majors"
The Airbus320 is correct when it calls pilots "Retard, Retard"
We are our own worst enemies
PBR

 

[surplus1]

What exactly is it about AWACs cost structure that makes us so expensive???? I keep hearing that we are the most expensive feeder out there...why?

So what is it? Why are we SOOOOO expensive? What am I missing? I'm not a smart person, so I'm sure someone can enlighten me. I know I'm missing something.

The problem is really a simple one. You are "expensive" because you make a profit. All of that "profit" is an expense to the Company that pays your "fee(s)" for departure. If UAL can lower your "fees" UAL will save money, you will not make as much "profit". Until your company is losing money rather than making money, UAL will continue to attack you. Misery loves company. They are bankrupt. Unless you are bankrupt too, it must mean you are making too much because they (UAL) pay you too much. That is how management thinks. It's not about your salary, it's about their bottom line.

There are other companies out there, like MES, TSA, CHQ, that will charge UAL less than you charge, so they will get the work unless you "match" their low bid. My Company is similar to yours; it makes money. In the eyes of management, that has to mean that it is "paid" too much. So, our work goes to CHQ which charges less.

When the time comes that we all charge the same, then the pressure will continue to increase on all of us until someone decides that he can charge less. It's a game, and we (pilots) are the victims. It will not change until we all say NO at the same time. The chances of that happening are virtually zero.

There is a reason why the world's "oldest profession" is the world's oldest profession. Until the streetwalkers and the call girls stop walking and stop taking "calls", that profession will continue. Pilots are the streetwalkers of the aviation industry. We would rather fly for 17 - 50 thousand dollars than not fly at all, so we will get 17-50K and management will continue to force us to fly for less, as long as we let them.

You may be in love with Capatilism and that's how it functions. The capitalist exploits labor for his own benefit. Hiring a whore for a few bucks is always cheaper that the "high maintenance" live-in wife.

If the "union" were to ask us to draw a line in the sand and all say NO how many do you think would cross that line in preference to saying "I quit"? When you have that answer we can solve the problem.

 

[WhiteCloud]

The problem is really a simple one. You are "expensive" because you make a profit.

Good post. The press is that AWAC made about 20M last year. I guess UAL wants it even though it's represents only 3 or 4 days of loss to them. They must be really hurting.

 

[J32driver]

The press is that AWAC made about 20M last year.

I actually think that was for one quarter. I beleive the yearly number was something close to 80M. I could be wrong though. Just going off of memory.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I actually think that was for one quarter. I beleive the yearly number was something close to 80M. I could be wrong though. Just going off of memory.

I guess that's pretty enticing to UAL then. It's still only the cost of 4 RJ's or a month of UAL loss if they simply confiscate the money.

 

[CHQ-FO]

CHQ was very profitable last year as well and has a very similar pilot pay as Air Wisc. (If the figures at airlinepilotpay.com are accurate) It is amazing how we quickly credit and blame pilot cost with success and growth of airlines when in realtity we are only a small piece of the entire picture. I don't think your management can come asking for pilot concessions when you at the industry average, perhaps they need to investigate the operations at HQ. Or as a previous poster on another thread asked, is this a method of UAL replacing 50 seaters with 70? Either way, best of luck. Friends and others I have met at Air Wisc are a great group of people.

 

[BE99chick]

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/BTS2903.htm

 

[BE99chick]

Dang.. .I need glasses....

That was last year...here's the 2nd Quarter results for this year

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/bts2504.htm

I guess the 3rdQ will be posted by the DOT soon.

 

[Furloughed80]

Any new rumors about the AWAC situation?

 

[XJslave]

Dude here's a dollar buy a clue. You need to learn the history of the subject before you start talking. Awac was already squeezed by united along with the other UAX carriers. This happened last year, AWAC rebid it's contract along with all the other carriers and gave uniTED BIG savings. AWAC pilots have already given the company BIG consessions. I'm not blaming ALPA for this. This is all United managment, but ALPA is a poor excuse for a union. They are a waste of 2% of my pay.

That's good benefit form ALPA's economic and financial analysis office. HA They did a great job telling us we needed those consessions last year, then the company makes 80 million the next year. Yeah ALPA did a great job.

UAL is seeking further paycuts from their own pilots. Quit with the ALPA conspiracy theory already. I don't think UAL managment needed ALPA to come up with the idea of hammering AWAC. They've already squeezed the other UAX carriers with the help of the McBain group. This is just another costcutting measure - no more and no less. It's not ALPA's job to negotiate codeshares between airlines, only to assist in negotiations between pilot groups and managment. Should AWAC managment pursue consessions the AWAC pilots will have the benefit of ALPA's Economic and Financial Analysis office.