Single Standardized Payscale.

[Ty Webb]

I have said for years that we need a Guild. The Guild would set minimum pay per seat and equipment. Your own union can always negotiate something better, but never less.

That way, pilot pay is off the table and management would have to manage their way out of their current mess.

Unfortunately, half of you frigging cork smokers are too stupid to go for it, so here we are.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I have said for years that we need a Guild. The Guild would set minimum pay per seat and equipment. Your own union can always negotiate something better, but never less.

That way, pilot pay is off the table and management would have to manage their way out of their current mess.

Unfortunately, half of you frigging cork smokers are too stupid to go for it, so here we are.

If it was such a great idea then why isn't it so?

Question Ty Webb- HOW will the [your] Guild set the min pay? How would the min rates be determined then HOW will every management agree to them. Will every pilot group HAVE to be in the Guild? If not, then what will the Guild do when a non-guild pilot group accepts rates at lower than Guild minimum.

If all pilot groups HAVE to be in the Guild, then HOW is the Guild going to get/request/force every pilot group into the guild?


Rezfully Yours...

 

[Clyde]

I couldn't figure our how, or I'm not allowed to create a poll, so I'll just ask it.
Maybe someone smarter than me can turn it into an actual poll.


WOULD YOU BE IN FAVOR OF A SINGLE, STANDARDIZED (FAIR !) PAYSCALE BASED ON EQUIPMENT/SEAT/LENGHT-OF-SERVICE WHICH APPLIES TO ALL CARRIES ?


YES: I would be in favor of a single and fair payscale.

NO: I think pilots should negotiate their wages with their individual companies
the way it is now.



Please answer yes or no only.

My vote:

NO!​

 

[Sam Snead]

I was just watching a show on TV about luxury cruises, and there was a short segment with the... Captain (a Dutch guy).

Are there any insights to be had about the way professional sailors unite (or don't) when it comes to passenger liners?

I am totally igorant about maritime issues in totality and in advance I beg your forgiveness of such ignorance.

 

[wms]

The problem with a standard pay rate is not all airlines can afford good pay rates. A single rate would be limited by what the poorest airline could pay which would lower the pay of pilots working at good companies.

The problem with a single union or guild is that if a more senior pilot gets furloughed from a poorly run airline or a bad airline goes out of busines, you would be bumped onto the street. You become the victim of another airlines problems even though you work for a good airline.

I would say the pilots who support this are the ones at the most unstable airlines. It's typical ALPA arrogance that says I can take your job because things aren't working out for me here. And this is what this is all about.

 

[Birdstrike]

The problem with a standard pay rate is not all airlines can afford good pay rates...

It's one of the problems. I still don't see any way around the 800 lb gorilla in the room: no shortages of qualified pilots always willing to work for less. Some see that as a race to the bottom. Others see it as the American Way; free market capitalism, and their choice.
Whatever it is, it's going to prevent standard pay from ever being anything but woofle dust, no matter what "secret discussions" may be going on.

 

[Wasted]

The problem with a standard pay rate is not all airlines can afford good pay rates. A single rate would be limited by what the poorest airline could pay which would lower the pay of pilots working at good companies.

Raise prices to cover your costs. Is that such a novel idea?

The problem with a single union or guild is that if a more senior pilot gets furloughed from a poorly run airline or a bad airline goes out of busines, you would be bumped onto the street. You become the victim of another airlines problems even though you work for a good airline.

You don't work for an airline. You work at an airline. You belong to the union first.

I would say the pilots who support this are the ones at the most unstable airlines. It's typical ALPA arrogance that says I can take your job because things aren't working out for me here. And this is what this is all about.

I can stick my hand into a spinning turbocharger and lop off a few digits and I would still be able to count on that hand all the airlines here that are stable. But hey, I guess as long as you're at a less unstable airline, and you're at the top of the list, and you've got your boat, what the heck should you care about what would be best for this industry in the long run, right? This of course is exactly what is meant by the term "stupid and selfish" pilots.

 

[Wasted]

It's one of the problems. I still don't see any way around the 800 lb gorilla in the room: no shortages of qualified pilots always willing to work for less. Some see that as a race to the bottom. Others see it as the American Way; free market capitalism, and their choice.
Whatever it is, it's going to prevent standard pay from ever being anything but woofle dust, no matter what "secret discussions" may be going on.

There will be a 1800lb gorilla that forces all the 800lb gorillas to march into the union hall and sign up first before they can get a job. Go somewhere and see if you can get a job at a construction site by saying you're not in the union and you're willing to work for less than all those other union guys sitting over there. See what happens.

 

[maru657]

There will be a 1800lb gorilla that forces all the 800lb gorillas to march into the union hall and sign up first before they can get a job. Go somewhere and see if you can get a job at a construction site by saying you're not in the union and you're willing to work for less than all those other union guys sitting over there. See what happens.

Ahhh, This is the concept of a real union as opposed to a association.
Of course, too many working pilots in the US came from wealthy, middle class kids who's parents could afford to buy them a career or the officer ranks of the military. This leads to a certain mind set. Life has been too easy, no real challenges which would build the character necessary to take on industry leaders and the govt. As a result, the numbers probably are not there for a real union. However with the current condition of the US economy and the airline industry and where it's going ie; furloughs, layoffs etc; maybe it's due.
Especially since your ability to maintain any career stability is more dependant on the company's ability to buy political help than be competant.
A regulated industry would control the growth of companies and lead to the old system of longer periods as a first officer but stability within that company would be much assured.

 

[Phaedrus]

...or the officer ranks of the military. This leads to a certain mind set. Life has been too easy, no real challenges which would build the character necessary to...

You sir, are an idiot.

 

[Birdstrike]

There will be a 1800lb gorilla that forces all the 800lb gorillas to march into the union hall and sign up first before they can get a job. Go somewhere and see if you can get a job at a construction site by saying you're not in the union and you're willing to work for less than all those other union guys sitting over there. See what happens.

In 23 states that have right to work laws, nothing will happen. You can't compell mandatory union/guild/whateveryouwannacallit membership. Joining on a voluntary basis leaves you with what you have today...freedom to choose and to willingly work for less than the union guy. Isn't that the reality why a single scale wouldn't work? What was the question again?

 

[Wasted]

In 23 states that have right to work laws, nothing will happen. You can't compell mandatory union/guild/whateveryouwannacallit membership. Joining on a voluntary basis leaves you with what you have today...freedom to choose and to willingly work for less than the union guy. Isn't that the reality why a single scale wouldn't work? What was the question again?

That leaves 27 where you'd get kneecapped.