Single 135 Operators..Any Advice?

[dueguard1]

Any single pilot 135 operators could offer any advice, on how to start a small operation? Approximate costs? Insurance? Who do you fly for? Is there a market? I would love to haul cargo in this type operation in the SE... Thanks alot

 

[climbhappy]

i had a small freight and pax op in the 90s. had an aztec. a single pilot op is the easiest to get as far as paperwork. no training or GOM required. IT IS NOT AS PRETTY A PICTURE AS YOU THINK.

Unless you are an FBO owner that has maintenance, gas, aircraft rental, flight school and a charter department with managed aircraft, it will be simply a losing propostion.

the insurance is very costly. depends on the hull value. you never stated what your plan was. Do you have some contract in mind to bid on? if not it will cost alot and you'll fail unless you are a self starter who knows how to network, look for prospects and can sell yourself and your services.

For some reason, having your own 135 has some kind of romantic allure. I kept going depsite the drain on my resources and the time it took away from more important , more profitable matters. Trying to operate in the present will most assuredly require deep pockets, resolve, experience and a focus that may or may not be what you're inclined to bear. you may be a great businessman and have a huge rolodex. I would talk to other small operators and get them to be honest and blunt.

hope this helps. also, talk to your local FSDO. mine has good prople who will level with you. some have done the same thing before and now they're inspectors.

 

[siegelaviation]

I am just about at the end of my Part 135 Single Pilot Certification. Let me tell you one thing: The process SUCKS. There is no guidance except for out of date advisory circulars. My POI is so busy that I can rarely get ahold of him. Don't get me wrong, the inspectors I work with are great guys and do a great job, but they are so busy that my measly 135 ops are not their priority.

Approximate costs for certification? $0 if you do it yourself. I think I paid $1200 for my Compliance Statement.

Insurance varies depending on the aircraft you choose to operate. I have a Seneca II with a $162,000 hull value. Private insurance cost: $4300 per year with zero time in type. Commercial Insurance for Pax and Cargo ops: $10,100 per year with 100 hours in type. Oh, and you need to get economic authority from the DOT and you must have insurance to receive it.

Is there a market? Yes, if you are in the right place at the right time.

Cargo is tough to get into. In Kansas City alone there are roughly 10 cargo companies. If someone calls me to fly cargo, great. If not, I have a lot of interest from people who don't want to spend a fortune chartering a Baron.

Bottom line: You must be business oriented and patient. These things don't happen overnight. I started the process with the Feds in Novemeber. My POI basically promised me my cert at the end of this month. Doesn't look like it is going to happen due to my mtx and avionics inspectors taking long lunches and never being in the office.

 

[IHateMgmt]

I am currently involved in a multi pilot 135 start up and I can tell you that it is a tough road. We have even won many contracts and have a lot of opportunity, and its still not easy. Our biggest frustration right now is working with the feds. Though they are nice people, they are way too busy and their lack of time has really been cutting into our timetable. We are behind where we wanted to be and it is largely due to something that is completely out of out control... like I said, very frustrating. There are also many failing 135 operators around us. One recently has closed the doors and two others seem to be next. The competition is fierce. I say all this not to deter you, but to motivate you. If you are going to do this, you better have your sh*t together and hit the ground running. Best of luck.

-IHM

 

[surveypilot]

PM Me

I work for a piston 135 operator in the Southeast, and we were single pilot for the first 11 months. Feel free to PM to discuss our experiences.

 

[iflyabeech]

I posted a couple of months ago saying I was almost done, Cause the Feds told me all I had to do was take a checkride and I was done. Well, took forever to get the checkride, and now it has been over a month since the checkride and it looks like it will be another couple weeks before its done. I have done all the work myself. Most of my problems are from the Feds who seem to know about as much about the certification process as my 2 year old daughter! They are so slow and it seems like they don't know what they are doing. I will tell you it is the most frustrating experience I have ever experienced! They told us we would be up and running on Feb. 1, it is now JUNE!!!

 

[livin'thesim]

Generally speaking, I would offer this advice.
Don't do it unless you are at least as much a businessman as you are a pilot.
If your goal is to fly cargo, go work for a cargo outfit to see what the biz is like before you start down this road. Take the amout of time you think you will need to get certificated, then double it. Take the amount that you think it will cost and double it. Take the amount you think you will make and halve it.

 

[Cowboypilot]

Is there a company that has a "fill in the blank" computer program for all the necessary paperwork to start a 135?
Thanks

 

[AerroMatt]

Is there a company that has a "fill in the blank" computer program for all the necessary paperwork to start a 135?
Thanks

Check PM's

 

[iflyabeech]

Is there a company that has a "fill in the blank" computer program for all the necessary paperwork to start a 135?
Thanks

.
There are a few different things out there. Not exactly fill in the blank. The Feds will make you review and change the paperwork anyway

 

[Cowboypilot]

Thank you.

 

[siegelaviation]

Do it yourself. The single pilot compliance statement is not that tough. Plus, by doing it yourself you know exactly what your operation will entail.

Michale

 

[Cowboypilot]

The FAA told me I couldnt have a single pilot Part 135 because the A/C I want to use has 10 seats.
Do you know if this is correct?

 

[cvsfly]

Is that 10 total seats or 10 passenger seats? Can't find the exact reference, but it is probably somewhere in the Inspectors Handbook 8400.10. Try http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8400/. I know some equipment requirements change for over 9 seats and if it is a scheduled operation that puts you into a commuter operation. I believe our Operation Specifications Section A had a restriction stated for the size of aircraft when we were a Single Pilot-in-Command Operator prior to us becoming a Basic. I can't be sure.

 

[AerroMatt]

The FAA told me I couldnt have a single pilot Part 135 because the A/C I want to use has 10 seats.
Do you know if this is correct?

FAR 135.99 (b) states: "No certificate holder may operate an aircraft without a second in command if that aircraft has a passenger seating configuration, excluding any pilot seat, of ten seats or more.

If this describes the aircraft you are attempting to use, just remove seats until you have only 9 passenger seats, then you can get single pilot approval.

 

[Cowboypilot]

Thanks. I found a lot of info at www.part135.com. that help you get the mauals you need.

 

[cvsfly]

FAR 135.99 (b) states: "No certificate holder may operate an aircraft without a second in command if that aircraft has a passenger seating configuration, excluding any pilot seat, of ten seats or more.

If this describes the aircraft you are attempting to use, just remove seats until you have only 9 passenger seats, then you can get single pilot approval.

This doesn't cut it with FAA anymore. I think it was a AC or other communique in the last year that spoke about altering the configuration to avoid additional regulation requirements. I have it somewhere. They are going by type data certificate now.

If it is a SIC required aircraft, then the minimum operator would have to be at least a Single Pilot-in-Command (which allows SICs). Obviously a Single Pilot operator wouldn't cut it, but I think the FSDO is telling you strait. You will have to be at least a Basic will all the manuals that entails.

 

[iflyabeech]

Just talked to FSDO and apparently they have some new program and directive that says new certifications are the lowest priority. They are still working on my single pilot certificate, with no end in sight, even though they called me over 2 months ago and said we would be up and running in 10 days!

 

[IHateMgmt]

Just talked to FSDO and apparently they have some new program and directive that says new certifications are the lowest priority. They are still working on my single pilot certificate, with no end in sight, even though they called me over 2 months ago and said we would be up and running in 10 days!

...Moving at the speed of the FAA... I find myself saying this a lot lately.

 

[iflyabeech]

Do a search on Faa.gov for CSOP. . . That is the latest excuse from the FAA. . . Doesn't make much sense to me since we are already finished with almost everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iflyabeech]

And today is the first I have heard of CSOP, over 7 months into the certification nightmare!

 

[AerroMatt]

And today is the first I have heard of CSOP, over 7 months into the certification nightmare!

Uh, could you please enlighten us uneducated masses as to what CSOP is? I'm afraid I've never heard of it either.

 

[Cowboypilot]

In a nut shell its a way for the FAA to check out the DO CP DM of a proposed 135 operation befreo they issue the Air Carrier Certificate. I was taught today to by pass this is o apply for a Single oilot 135 the when issued then request an upgrade. That all I know. Heres the link:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8000/media/N8000-311.doc

 

[Cowboypilot]

Link

If this link is inop then go to FAA.gov then search for CSOP

 

[iflyabeech]

Uh, could you please enlighten us uneducated masses as to what CSOP is? I'm afraid I've never heard of it either.

Uh, dude, I said do a search on FAA.gov for CSOP. gduh!

 

[AerroMatt]

Too lazy

Uh, dude, I said do a search on FAA.gov for CSOP. gduh!

I'd rather have you guys do my research for me and then send the link! Hehe

 

[Cowboypilot]

Your so lazy.....

You have to have junior opertate your push to talk switch!

 

[livin'thesim]

My understanding is that you count the non-pilot seats to arrive at the less than 9 number. Ten total seats should be fine. The pilot needs one, leaving nine.