Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Since when does an airline union get to define what is and isn't legitmate purpose?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
FN FAL said:
I guess harley figured there was no "legitimate purpose" for a citizen to own a 750 Honda Shadow,

you guess? or was that statement actually in their motion filed in court?

btw, trade tarriffs are nothing new and not in use exclusively by this country. i really dont see how trade relations and/or paying more for a motorcycle have anything to do with letting the media circus have a field day with CVR tapes.


.
 
Last edited:
The "legitimate purpose" arguement went out the window, and precedent was set, when (then) Attorney General John Ashcroft allowed the families of flight 93 victims to listen to the CVR tapes.


Where was the statutory purpose there? There was none. So from a legal standpoint the motion is moot.
 
Last edited:
FN FAL said:
"Designed for", "original purpose", "use" are terms that don't help me better understand how a union can define "legitimate [lawful] purpose".

Is there a law on the books that determines whether or not it would be lawful for the public to be allowed or denied access to the tapes?

Time to do your own research to figure this out...........if that's really what you're after.

Fugawe
 
dash8driver said:
holy cow.. calm down.. you know, decaf tastes just as good as regular coffee. ;)
.
:) I hear ya, but I would kind of miss the heart palpitations.
 
Last edited:
fn fal said:
Originally Posted by FN FAL
"Designed for", "original purpose", "use" are terms that don't help me better understand how a union can define "legitimate [lawful] purpose".

Is there a law on the books that determines whether or not it would be lawful for the public to be allowed or denied access to the tapes? [/fn fal]


Fugawe said:
Time to do your own research to figure this out...........if that's really what you're after.

Fugawe
We have some good information coming in, so citions of alpa motions and CFRs.

Thanks.
 
Thanks for the lead on 49 USC 114, heres the text:

a) General.--(1) Except as provided in subsections (b), (c), (d), and (f) of this section, a copy of a record, information, or investigation submitted or received by the National Transportation Safety Board, or a member or employee of the Board, shall be made available to the public on identifiable request and at reasonable cost. This subsection does not require the release of information described by section 552(b) of title 5 or protected from disclosure by another law of the United States.


(2) The Board shall deposit in the Treasury amounts received under paragraph (1) to be credited to the appropriation of the Board as offsetting collections.


(b) Trade secrets.--(1) The Board may disclose information related to a trade secret referred to in section 1905 of title 18 only--


(A) to another department, agency, or instrumentality of the United States Government when requested for official use;

(B) to a committee of Congress having jurisdiction over the subject matter to which the information is related, when requested by that committee;

(C) in a judicial proceeding under a court order that preserves the confidentiality of the information without impairing the proceeding; and

(D) to the public to protect health and safety after giving notice to any interested person to whom the information is related and an opportunity for that person to comment in writing, or orally in closed session, on the proposed disclosure, if the delay resulting from notice and opportunity for comment would not be detrimental to health and safety.


(2) Information disclosed under paragraph (1) of this subsection may be disclosed only in a way designed to preserve its confidentiality.


(3) Protection of voluntary submission of information.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law, neither the Board, nor any agency receiving information from the Board, shall disclose voluntarily provided safety-related information if that information is not related to the exercise of the Board's accident or incident investigation authority under this chapter and if the Board finds that the disclosure of the information would inhibit the voluntary provision of that type of information.


(c) Cockpit recordings and transcripts.--(1) The Board may not disclose publicly any part of a cockpit voice or video recorder recording or transcript of oral communications by and between flight crew members and ground stations related to an accident or incident investigated by the Board. However, the Board shall make public any part of a transcript or any written depiction of visual information the Board decides is relevant to the accident or incident--


(A) if the Board holds a public hearing on the accident or incident, at the time of the hearing; or

(B) if the Board does not hold a public hearing, at the time a majority of the
other factual reports on the accident or incident are placed in the public docket.


(2) This subsection does not prevent the Board from referring at any time to cockpit voice or video recorder information in making safety recommendations.


(d) Surface vehicle recordings and transcripts.--


(1) Confidentiality of recordings.--The Board may not disclose publicly any part of a surface vehicle voice or video recorder recording or transcript of oral communications by or among drivers, train employees, or other operating employees responsible for the movement and direction of the vehicle or vessel, or between such operating employees and company communication centers, related to an accident investigated by the Board. However, the Board shall make public any part of a transcript or any written depiction of visual information that the Board decides is relevant to the accident--

(A) if the Board holds a public hearing on the accident, at the time of the hearing; or

(B) if the Board does not hold a public hearing, at the time a majority of the
other factual reports on the accident are placed in the public docket.

(2) References to information in making safety recommendations.--This subsection does not prevent the Board from referring at any time to voice or video recorder information in making safety recommendations.


(e) Drug tests.--(1) Notwithstanding section 503(e) of the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 1987 (Public Law 100-71, 101 Stat. 471), the Secretary of Transportation shall provide the following information to the Board when requested in writing by the Board:


(A) any report of a confirmed positive toxicological test, verified as positive by a medical review officer, conducted on an officer or employee of the Department of Transportation under post-accident, unsafe practice, or reasonable suspicion toxicological testing requirements of the Department, when the officer or employee is reasonably associated with the circumstances of an accident or incident under the investigative jurisdiction of the Board.

(B) any laboratory record documenting that the test is confirmed positive.


(2) Except as provided by paragraph (3) of this subsection, the Board shall maintain the confidentiality of, and exempt from disclosure under section 552(b)(3) of title 5--


(A) a laboratory record provided the Board under paragraph (1) of this subsection that reveals medical use of a drug allowed under applicable regulations; and

(B) medical information provided by the tested officer or employee related to the test or a review of the test.


(3) The Board may use a laboratory record made available under paragraph (1) of this subsection to develop an evidentiary record in an investigation of an accident or incident if--


(A) the fitness of the tested officer or employee is at issue in the investigation; and

(B) the use of that record is necessary to develop the evidentiary record.


(f) Foreign investigations.--


(1) In general.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law, neither the Board, nor any agency receiving information from the Board, shall disclose records or
information relating to its participation in foreign aircraft accident investigations; except that--

(A) the Board shall release records pertaining to such an investigation when the country conducting the investigation issues its final report or 2 years following the date of the accident, whichever occurs first; and

(B) the Board may disclose records and information when authorized to do so by the country conducting the investigation.

(2) Safety recommendations.--Nothing in this subsection shall restrict the Board at any time from referring to foreign accident investigation information in making safety recommendations.


CREDIT(S)
 
The statute seems to regulate the discovery demands placed on the NTSB, not the private agency (ie, the airline). It appears that a subpoena on the airline would not be controlled by this statute, only a FOIL. or similar, request on the government.
 
FN FAL said:
"Purpose" and "use" of a CVR? I would assume that would be the recording of data for playback at a later date.

For investigative purposes. Certainly not to sensationalize a tragic event for the public's enjoyment.
 
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/CVR_FDR.htm


The CVR recordings are treated differently than the other factual information obtained in an accident investigation. Due to the highly sensitive nature of the verbal communications inside the cockpit, Congress has required that the Safety Board not release any part of a CVR audio recording. Because of this sensitivity, a high degree of security is provided for the CVR audio and its transcript. The content and timing of release of the written transcript are strictly regulated: under federal law, transcripts of pertinent portions of cockpit voice recordings are released at a Safety Board public hearing on the accident or, if no hearing is held, when a majority of the factual reports are made public.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top