Simuflite Right Seat Program

[350DRIVER]

Ok...let's put you with a 500hr pilot with no jet time(but 20 hours of time in the sim) for your next PC and see what you think. Hmmmmm?

Frac,

I understand your concern and what you are saying. I just tend to put more emphasis on that person's experience, skill level, background, track record, history, etc, versus prematurely judging that person based solely upon how much flight time that he or she may have at the time.

We both know for a fact that a type rating/sim time will do them little good if anything in the "real world" (135/91)at such a low total time since they are not "insurable" to be a SIC, so now the issue becomes whether or not they are adequately trained enough to be in that position to be a good sim partner, I tend to think that they are. Obviously you have exceptions to this and I am sure a few cases could be documented that would support your opinion but I don't think what you are saying is the norm here with regards to this issue.


If they were trained, sharp, know their stuff, evaluated by program managers, etc, then throw me in the sim with one and I bet I do just fine.

You can argue this both ways but I think it would be like saying that Pepsi is better than Coke, it comes down to personal preferences more than anything else.

I know many corporate and charter departments that would never allow this practice to take place since they are paying big bucks for the training but on the other end I know just as many of these operators that could care less...


take your pick...

3 5 0

 

[johnpeace]

I guess it's Simuflite's responsibility to provide a good training environment. How they do that should be up to them.

From my perspective, I wasn't looking at programs like this as an 'instead of' building time and experience flying, but as an 'in addition too'.

It doesn't apply to me anyway since I don't/will not live in DFW for a year, but for those who are able to take advantage of it, more power to them.

I wish FSI in Atlanta had something like this, I'd be all over doing 2-3 2 hour Lear or Citation sim sessions a week for a year!

And I'd be so highly motivated to succeed that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference (performance wise) between me and your SIC at work.

 

[FracCapt]

Completely professional, and in NO WAY even remotely resembling a PFT'r.

I never said it was anything like PFT...where do you guys keep coming up with this?

FRACCAPT: So a young CFI should avoid a part-time internship that will eventually result in a 8410, Type Rating, and job? All becuase the internship doesn't pay? Get real man. If you're going to come on here slamming Simuflite, then you really should step up to the bar and justify your accusations.

Exactly what accusations did I make? Against whom? I said that it's a bad business practice, IMO, for them to put low time, inexperienced pilots with people paying for initial and/or recurrent training. If the airplane is meant to be flown with one pilot, it will be single pilot certified. Otherwise, I want somebody that has the experience to know what to do, when to do it, and knows the best way to go about it. With experience comes good judgement. With good judgement comes safety.

I can't speak for anything but the Learjet side of things, but in the time I was associated with SF as a client, I experienced nothing but a professional, dedicated, hard-working bunch of people and an outstnading training culture.

I have to say that I have experienced the same in my 3 years as a client at Simuflite. I still, however, do not agree with what they are doing. If I am placed with an intern, I will request somebody else from the start. I have a limited amount of time available in the sim - and I want to accomplish as much as possible in that time. I don't want to just check all the boxes...I want some real experiences that I have not experienced, and hopefully never will. I've done many circling approaches, approaches to minimums, missed approaches, etc. I'm happy just checking the boxes on those...but I want as much of the stuff I haven't experienced as possible. Severe windshear, microbursts, multiple failures, high hot and heavy V1 cuts, double gen failures, etc.....and I want an SIC that can give me all the necessary help while handling them.

I guess the bottom line is that it is personal preference. I'm the client - I don't feel it is at all unreasonable for me to call the shots regarding who I get paired with in the sim.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

The thing is, the low time intern probibly can hack the work if they work hard. It isn't like they are throwing Joe Smoe into the right seat with you, the guy does have some real world experience and will have flown the sim before. You fly the sim once or twice a year, the intern flys it every week (and sees the emergencies every week too). How is that not experience enough?

 

[Timebuilder]

That's an excellent point.

Perhaps the issue may be the kind of experience. One kind is the static kind that always covers the same items, week in and week out. Checklists. Systems. Procedures. An excellent and reliable foundation for the typical 8410 ride and type rating.

The other kind of experience is gained outside the sim environment. I think the only way to gain that expereince is to be out there, doing it. This is the area where the low time pilot is deficient.

As to how well the guy in this right seat program will do, each individual will be different, and all of the low timers will need the additional real world experience that they have yet to acquire after this program.

 

[TRLpilot]

i think some of the real value is in networking. i have heard of a couple of folks that were in the program and after the sim session have the PIC turn to them and say "hey, we're going to be needing a first officer soon. would you be interested?"

i find it hard to believe that someone with a lot of sim time going through emergency drills over and over wouldn't make a good SIC (not withstanding attitude and personal matters). that's also with the assumption they have 135 minimums.

i plan on looking into it when the time comes and i have the qualifications.

 

[T-1GUY]

Simuflite

As an employee in the Beechjet program at Simuflite, I feel that I should point out a few
things that I didn't consider as an outsider at the company.

Yes, you are working for free, but you are gaining so much more.

What price would you pay to fly and meet with hundreds of prospective employers???

The typical employee at Simuflite is Older, highly experienced, and tends to have great connections
with several major airlines, military reserve units, part 91 corporate offices, and oh by the way
we have the Flight Options contract for training all their pilots.

Within four months of working at Simuflite, I have had several job offers that were pretty good
deals, however they just didn't meet my own personal needs.

My initial training was with a pilot who started out in the right seat program, worked his way into
local contract flying, and recently was offered and accepted a full-time corporate Hawker job.

He happen to get the Hawker type for free in the right seat program along with his beechjet type.

Just my thoughts.....

 

[johnpeace]

My initial training was with a pilot who started out in the right seat program, worked his way into
local contract flying, and recently was offered and accepted a full-time corporate Hawker job.

He happen to get the Hawker type for free in the right seat program along with his beechjet type.

Just my thoughts.....

Oh come on, you expect us to believe that? After all:

A type(or an SIC checkout, whichever applies) means nearly nothing without time in type. I've been in a position to hire pilots for jet PIC and SIC positions...and honestly, if somebody came to me with this "experience", I would pretty much consider it nothing.

Thanks for the inside perspective. Any plans to open an ATL campus?

 

[wingnutt]

If I am placed with an intern, I will request somebody else from the start...and I want an SIC that can give me all the necessary help while handling them.

I guess the bottom line is that it is personal preference. I'm the client - I don't feel it is at all unreasonable for me to call the shots regarding who I get paired with in the sim.

ummm...these guys arent just thrown into the sim blindly. if i recall correctly, they get an SIC checkout from the start and the type after a year. so, youd probably get a bit more help from them than you think

 

[Jump Pilot]

Right seaters go through the same initial class as the clients

Right seaters take the same part 135 SIC checkride as the clients

Right seaters take the same recurrent class and checkride as the clients