SIMCOM/PANAM Vs Flight Safety or SimuFli

chepito

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Hello, I am curious to know if anyone knows the difference in getting a Lear type rating at SIMCOM/PANAM Vs Flight Safety or SimuFlite. It seems to me that while searching for jobs, most job offers will read "Flight Safety or SimuFlite trained preffered".
Thanks everyone in advance.
 

CitationCapt

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It's a training quality issue

I go by training quality as setting the standard without debating the issue. FSI sets the standard in my book.

CitationCapt.
 

Newbee

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Simcom

You know, I have been to FSI twice and simcom about 5 times. I Much prefered the trainning at simcom. This may sound funny but the instructors were dedicated to you as their student, not their 4 o'clock. Don't get me wrong, You get out what you put into it.

I also found that the flight safety way of doing ground school starting at 8 then your sim might be at 2 am! Is a bit ridiculous! All my experiences with Simcom have been a 8-5 thing. Much easier to perform when you don't have to take your pillow to the sim.

Never been to Simuflight.

Newbee
 

flywithruss

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SimCom is good ...

I went to KA-200 initial at SimCom back in March, and was pleased with the job they did. The class was small (two students to one instructor) and as previously mentioned, everything was done on an 8-5 time frame. The instructors do a good job there, and will adapt to your needs. We requested a little extra training in some areas, they were happy to oblige, while not having us repeat other areas over and over again.

My company alternates providers for recurrent, so our next trip to the schoolhouse will be at Simuflite. I haven't been there yet, but will report after I return.

Tailwinds, y'all ...

R
 

Webslinger

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Learjets

I would stick with FSI- Tuscon/Witchita, or Simuflite-DFW. Both do a good job in the Lears. Depends on which Lear type your talking about, and of course the experience of your instructor.
Just my .02 worth.
 

passion4flying

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I would stay away from the instructors at FSI in Wichita. I have been to Tuscon, Wichita and Simuflite. I prefer Dallas above all. Just my .02 as well.

Brett
 

LJDRVR

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I can't comment on FSI or SIMCOM, but I can enthusiastically recommend Simuflite. Great facility, excellent instructors, and their 35 sim flys exactly like the jet. The vast majority of Lear folks I talk to prefer SF. Are you funding your own training? Be careful to prepare thoroughly, the initial type ride is no cakewalk. The biggest difference at SImuflite is they will never give you some boob of an instructor who has no real-world experience in the jet.
 

501261

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Flightsafety sets the standard for professional simulator training. They are the biggest and spend the most money developing new simulators. However I believe that they do not do that good of a job of maintaining and training on some of their lower level sims (ie King Airs and Lears). Having said that, there is some real talent with the long time instructors at FS (Dick Lathrobe LGB, also the King Air manager in ICT, and the Lear manager in TUS). In short FS is the most professional facillity, the Citation sim in LGB is next to the MD-11 sim that American Airlines is training in, the King Air Sim in HOU is next to the Emb-120 sim Coex is using.

Simuflite has the nicest facillity, the Taj Mahal is a very nice place to train in, and my personal favorite. I also prefer the Stimuflite manuals to FS's.

Simcom/Quickturn are much less professional, you will likely mingle with owner-operators, and people trying to save a buck on training. I was also not very impressed with the manuals at either place. However, if you absolutely need to get some recurrent in for cheap and quick this is the place to go. I wouldn't recommend it for initial. The instructors might spend more time with you individually, but they have less knowledge of the aircraft. Again this is in general, there are some very knowledgable instructors at Simcom/Quickturn, and there are some idiots at FS/SF

Overall, it really doesn't matter where you go, as long as you get a Level C or D sim. Once you get in the sim you're going to be doing the same thing every place you go. They're all 142 schools so they're pretty much scripted by the FAA as to what they have to do; i.e. day three is hot and heavy, and you always have to do the same manuevers on the checkride. The only real differnence between the places is getting a good instructor and getting good ground school, unfortunalty most of the good instructors are teaching the Gulfstreams and Falcons.


....Hey LJDRVR I think Chester the Molester is trying to page you.....JJ
 

chepito

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SIMCOM Vs FLT SAFETY OR SIMUFLITE

Thanks for all the responses.
I am not funding my own training but hopefully I will get the training by obtaining Federal Funds. Unfortunatelly I do not have the money to come up with the balance to get the training at SIMUFLITE or Flight Safety since the Federal funds given are limeted to $8000 and SIMUFLITE's LR type rating runs about $13,000.

Thanks again!!
 

Timebuilder

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Since you folks have some experience in this area, can you post an estimate of the cost for the initial Lear type at these facilities?
 

501261

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Without time in type getting the type rating is absolutley worthless!

I believe Lawndart said it best about getting a type without time in type "it's a lot like playing with yourself in the bathroom: It feels great at the time, but a couple hours later you're embarrassed that you did it. "

The only type rating I would even consider buying is a 737, if you are inclided to work at a certain airline.

Some other things to consider is that you cannot recieve your first type in the sim (25/35 hour supervised PIC limitations, etc. apply), also if its not a level C sim (I believe Simcom's is level B), you can not recieve a type rating in it!

For an Intitial Lear Type prices vary, from a Fullservice Contract at FS for $16,300, to some guy giving Lear Types in Van Nuys around for $5,000 and everything inbetween. You get what you pay for.

Again as a manager when I see a resume with a type and no time in it, I question it big time, often roundfiling it. Did s/he leave the company right after they gave him the type, is s/he a rick kid playing around with daddy's money? Just adds more questions than they are worth.
 

DC8Driver

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501261, I do not agree with you on a type being worthless. I had WIA money available and got a Citation type. I have been picking up trips ad/hoc regularly since. I also interviewed and was offered a job on a Citation. A very good paying job. I was interviewed because I had a type. I flew the first trip with the captain and declined the job because of fear/safety questions. I really needed a full time job so you can imagine :)

Part 91 operators are getting hit hard by the insurance companies over training. If you get FS, Simuflite or Simcom current it opens up opertunities. It saves them from having to send you.

If you have prior jet time and over 2000 hours, you can get your type in the sim if it is a level C or D.

I would pay for another type out of my pocket if I was offered the right job.....In a heartbeat. Let the flaming begin!!!!!!
 

501261

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Good point DC8Driver! There are companies out there that will hire people with only a type rating. The problem is that they are flying the kind of equipment (read old beat up Lear 25's, etc) that you really need to have some experiece in type with to keep from killing yourself.

You can argue that that kind of scenario contibuted to Sunjet/Payne Steward disaster. If I remember correctly the Captain had less than 250 in type and got his type via VA benefits. No one knows what happened up there, but bottomline is they did not respond to a loss of pressurization scenario properly.

"I would pay for another type out of my pocket if I was offered the right job.....In a heartbeat. " I really disagree with that statement! It can't be that good of a job if they haven't factored in training costs. Look, FS fullservice deals account for only 3% of my department's annual budget. If they can't afford that, the insurance companies really ought to keep them from flying, get rid of all those &^%(* cheap operators!

Paying for a type to get a job, is simply a PFT and that lowers the bar for every pilot. If we continue to lower the standard, pretty soon there will no longer be airline capts making $200K or corporate guys making over $100K if people continue to PFT or accept a lower wage so "they can build time for a major." Show some pride in your chosen profession!
 

DC8Driver

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I do have alot of pride. That's why I have interviewed at two regionals and turned them both down. I won't work for $1500 a month. Why not offer to pay for my type to get a 40 or 50k job?

Makes sense to me. Investing in my future. Is it a perfect world? No. Supply and demand. A year ago I wouldn't have even considered it. Now, it seems smart. Remember you are looking at my situation from an employed perspective :)

I can't afford to think about lowering the industry pay, I must only think about getting employed at a safe place with a livable wage.

I normally agree with most of your posts I've read. Not this time.

Good luck and fly safe
 

wildbill

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I have done training at both Simuflight andFlightsafety on Citations. Simuflight is layed back and more responsive to the needs of pilots. Flightsafety seems more concerned about the employers and what they think. FSI is "packing" training so as not to take to many days to train a pilot and offend the employer when in fact they need to slow down a bit. Most part 91 operators allow training only once a year so the pilot needs to get the most out of it. Not to be rushed. As to cost, I recently got my Excel type at FSI, ICT. The cost was $ 19,200.00 plus expenses. Not cheap at all. Type was done in level D Sim.
Training was very professional, but pushed.
I did Pan Am for DC-9 training. They seemed very disorganized and did not really have a plan from day to day.
I know nothing of Simcom.
I have done at Flightsafety, CE0- 500's, CE-560XL, Cheyenne II,
BE-58P, CE-421. Only had one bad experience. Got the Bucks to blow, do FSI. Good quality a little cheaper SimuFlight.
Good Luck
 
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