Can someone please tell me the advantage (from the airline's view) of a sim evaluation? We already know how to fly. That's obvious from the job we currently have/airplanes we currently fly. Yes, an eval may be necessary if I am going from a flight instruction job to an airline position but I have 5K hours. Some airlines don't require an eval, so why do others? In my opinion, the person who can spend the big bucks for a sim prep is rewarded w/ the job. I'll do that if I have to but give me a break.
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Sim Evaluations
- Thread starter wilbur
- Start date
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Americam
Aircraft Ops Generalist
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2007
- Posts
- 78
Sim eval is given for the same reason they give a written test. It's an easy way to varify that those 5K are real, and you weren't "pen" flying 4.7K of those hours (they can easily tell the difference between a 300 hour and 5000 hour pilot.) They also want to see if you've developed any bad habits over your 5K hours. A proficient pilot wouldn't have a problem flying the profile in the sim eval... typically it's just a departure, steep turn, hold (some have you fly an entire hold, others just ask you how you'd enter the hold), then a vector to an ILS. Easy-peesy-japaneesy. If you really have 5K, you shouldn't sweat a sim eval.
L'il J.Seinfeld
Luckiest man alive
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2005
- Posts
- 420
I've known very good pilots who have failed sim rides at FDX and UPS in the last year. Some were military-fighter, military-heavy, and RJ backgrounds. I agree with the first post. All a sim eval does is reward those who do the sim prep.
venr122
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Posts
- 60
Agree with non-bolded portion, BUT, disagree with bold portion.
I know many companies that will offer you LOTS of sim prep in a real, full-motion simulator, the same one you will expect to see during your sim check. Some of these prep companies even have the *current* eval profile the airline will have you fly.
You can take a (rich) 100 hr private pilot, and given enough sim training through these prep courses, can EASILY pass an airline sim eval.
There are companies whose sole job is to specifically get you through an interview, and they will give you the necessary sim prep. If you have enough $$$$, you can literally buy as MUCH time as you want in the exact type sim you will be tested on and the profile that will be expected on the sim (available from gouges).
SteelerMan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
- Posts
- 114
True, you probably could buy enough sim time if you were a rich 100 hour pilot, but that is what minimum qualifications are for. If all you do is a one on one interview, you are probably letting some people slip through who do not have as good as skills as the airline would like. You want to hire good pilots, not the ones with the most time in their logbook. Just because you have 5000 hours doesn't mean you can fly, it doesn't mean anything other than you have 5000 hours. Its alot easier to do a sim eval than to fire someone who struggles with training or line flying. As far as the sim prep, it can help you prepare, but you still need to have skills and a brain as holding instructions will be different than the prep, etc. I think I see the benefit to the sim eval.
Steeler Fan
Here we go Steelers!
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2003
- Posts
- 635
Go Steelers!
flatspin7
TOGA!!!! TOGA!!!
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2004
- Posts
- 524
I was told by someone does the sim evals at CAL that outside of the obvious "can he/she fly ?" They are looking at how you deal with a mistake. They know that nobody will fly a perfect ride. Almost everybody gets 50 ft high, 5 kts slow, one dot off the loc etc once or twice during the ride, what they are looking for is that you notice and correct the error in a timely manner. If you do that your fine, where people run into problems if you dont correct your errors, make them repeatedly, or let them ball you up.
If you make a mistake and then start worrying about it, it will affect your flying for the rest of your ride. At CAL the majority of people have no problems with the sim, it is set up for you to pass.
The best advice I could give anybody is to go and start working on random holds so you are fresh on that because lets face it you never really do it any more. And do a Sim prep especially if you are coming out of a Glass airplane, it takes a little while to get comfortable with a round dial airplane again.
If you make a mistake and then start worrying about it, it will affect your flying for the rest of your ride. At CAL the majority of people have no problems with the sim, it is set up for you to pass.
The best advice I could give anybody is to go and start working on random holds so you are fresh on that because lets face it you never really do it any more. And do a Sim prep especially if you are coming out of a Glass airplane, it takes a little while to get comfortable with a round dial airplane again.
Scrapdog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Posts
- 1,127
I happen to totally disagree with you. Quite a few folks don't know "how to fly" no matter how many hours they have. There are plenty of buffoons that can push buttons on the MCP and FMS, but completely lack actual aviating and situational awareness skills. I'm sure everyone on here has seen it here or there on how many happen to slip through the cracks. It's amazing how many guys can't do a a 3-1 rule in their head or just plain make an airplane go where they want it to go. And that's in a flight where you are just going from point A to B, forget executing anything tactical. The sim evaluation gives the company at least a small piece of insight on how someone flies. But again, there are still folks that manage to slip through the cracks there as well, but at least not as many. My 2 cents...
Just curious but did you do a sim-prep prior to your UPS interview?
AAflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 1,493
Double Shot
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2004
- Posts
- 213
At Cal they give you the flight director. If you cant fly with that then you really need help. In the 90s when I got hired at CAL they did not let you use the flight director. It was raw data and that truelly showed something. Now it is just follow the idiot bars which shows nothing.
L'il J.Seinfeld
Luckiest man alive
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2005
- Posts
- 420
No and it about cost me the job! I did a 737 type rating a few months prior but it did not get me ready for the 767 FBS. I made the mistake of thinking that flying a 737-200 sim would prepare me.
On another note, I'd bet that anyone interviewing at UPS will be in the 727 sim.
Scrapdog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Posts
- 1,127
Dude - YGBSM! You think because you didn't have a flight director your sim was that much tougher? Is that a joke or are you being serious? Please tell me you're kidding. Flying a fatty at 250 knots, doing 30 degree turns, and flying an ILS to a full stop is not particularly hard, flight director or not. Sorry to burst your bubble Mr. "CAL to SWA F/O"
Double Shot
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2004
- Posts
- 213
I am glad you took my place over there. Good luck with your FedEx plus 1% LoL!
Did you ever notice scapdoggy that no one ever says SWA to CAL fo.
There is a reason for this.
Scrapdog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Posts
- 1,127
I have absolutely no clue wtf you mean by fedex plus 1%, but I enjoy flying at CAL. Good folks, good flying, and good company. Plus plenty of oppurtunities to fly international (if that is what you like). Next trip you fly, beg the captain to turn off the flight director for you so you can fly your ILS on just raw data (oh my God - say it isn't so!!). Now that is some real aviation skills - give me a friggin break.
And no, I didn't notice that no one says "SWA to CAL fo." Anybody that says anything like that in the first place is a complete tool. Hmm, hey pot, kettle is calling...
Sincerely - Scrapdog'gy'
Last edited:
Double Shot
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2004
- Posts
- 213
I fly an ILS without a flight director all the time, always knew I was a hardcore aviator thanks for validating me.
AAflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 1,493
I also turn off the autothrottles. Ahhhhh, you should see how many people CAN'T do it.
AA
HighSpeedClimb
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2006
- Posts
- 464
Agreed!!
Fedora
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Posts
- 260
It seems to me that we are making lots of "pilots" nowadays, but the Aviators are becoming harder and harder to find. I've seen 5000 hour guys with some pretty lack-luster knowledge of aviation and some pretty poor situational awareness.
If you're worried about a sim check to get hired somewhere, don't apply there, you obviously don't agree with the company's policies from the get-go, and you won't like it there anyway. If you think people get hired by flying a good sim ride, then why do they have the rest of the interview? Do you think you should be able to walk in with your logbooks and certificates and just ask when your class date is?
You want the job? Jump through the hoops. It's their bat and their ball. Complaining about their requirements here will change nothing. S**t happens. Deal with it.
If you're worried about a sim check to get hired somewhere, don't apply there, you obviously don't agree with the company's policies from the get-go, and you won't like it there anyway. If you think people get hired by flying a good sim ride, then why do they have the rest of the interview? Do you think you should be able to walk in with your logbooks and certificates and just ask when your class date is?
You want the job? Jump through the hoops. It's their bat and their ball. Complaining about their requirements here will change nothing. S**t happens. Deal with it.
Scrapdog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Posts
- 1,127
This thread reminds me of the locker room scene in Top Gun.uke:
Never saw the Top Gun where the dudes were flying 737's instead of F-14's and talking about their ILS's and 30 degree instrument banked turns. Must have been Top Gun 2...maybe it's out on DVD now.
I don't go "tactical" in the 73. You're right, what I should have said is that this thread reminds me of "Scrapdog.....the later years".
"Anything tactical"? When was the last time you did "anything tactical" in your airliner?
I think this video might be right up your alley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHklGtW3rwU
Scrapdog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Posts
- 1,127
Alright, alright - you got me...Scrapdog the later years got me chuckling! :laugh:
Happy Easter and Passover!
Sims are video games. The more familiar you are with the game, the better you are at it.
Putting some glass guy in a 30 year old 707 box, and asking him to try to find the numbers in all the wrong places is ridiculous....even more ridiculous if you are hiring him for a glass airplane. I have had the most seasoned analog guys panic because they didn't know there was a brightness adjustment knob on a dark LCD. That BS that you need to be able to fly a parallel entry to an NDB hold, with a partial panel...all while inverted...is a load of crap if you will never be able to learn the fundamental differences between an FMS, an IRS, and an ADC. There are a lot of guys out there that are afraid of computers.
Ask the guy to provide phone numbers of six FO's or captains that they have flown with in the past year. Call three of them. A guy that can't fly isn't going to find 3 people that will vouch for him.
Then take the candidate on a 3 day camping trip. See if he carries his load and makes you think you could spend a week with him. That's the way I'm going to hire when I'm stupid enough to create my own airline.
- Six
Putting some glass guy in a 30 year old 707 box, and asking him to try to find the numbers in all the wrong places is ridiculous....even more ridiculous if you are hiring him for a glass airplane. I have had the most seasoned analog guys panic because they didn't know there was a brightness adjustment knob on a dark LCD. That BS that you need to be able to fly a parallel entry to an NDB hold, with a partial panel...all while inverted...is a load of crap if you will never be able to learn the fundamental differences between an FMS, an IRS, and an ADC. There are a lot of guys out there that are afraid of computers.
Ask the guy to provide phone numbers of six FO's or captains that they have flown with in the past year. Call three of them. A guy that can't fly isn't going to find 3 people that will vouch for him.
Then take the candidate on a 3 day camping trip. See if he carries his load and makes you think you could spend a week with him. That's the way I'm going to hire when I'm stupid enough to create my own airline.
- Six
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
