silly FAR question of the week but....

[satpak77]

here it goes

(firesuit on...)

I fly a King Air 350 for a Part-91 operator. We fly this airplane dual pilot, both typed in the airplane.

Obviously, when occupying the left seat, as the sole manipulator of the controls, PIC time can be logged. However, the guy in the right seat, can SIC time be logged? This came up since the King Air 350 is a single pilot airplane.

Internally, company records keep track of our time as "Captain" and as "Copilot", and the guy acting as copilot will get his time recorded in that section due to internal company recordkeeping.

But from an FAA logbook perspective, how should this be logged. Note: On about 90% of the flights, I am the only pilot with a CFI/MEI, altho it is a pretty far stretch to claim I was performing instruction.

The question - If both pilots are typed, what is logged when sitting in the right seat? How about if guy in right seat happens to hold CFI/MEI ?

want to keep things legal and when I retire from this place don't want my logbooks questioned at any airline interviews, should I go that route.

thanks

 

[pilotyip]

Is this not case of a co-captain? Where both guys log PIC in there log books.

 

[satpak77]

Is this not case of a co-captain? Where both guys log PIC in there log books.

well indeed it is, but to be honest (fire suit still on) this "how to log time in your logbook" only came up recently.

I have electronic logbook, and have logged CP time under SIC, until I personally realized that no such thing existed for B-350. Aware that I was CFI and typed, I wondered if I should put it under PIC.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I fly a King Air 350 for a Part-91 operator. We fly this airplane dual pilot, both typed in the airplane.

[snip]

However, the guy in the right seat, can SIC time be logged? This came up since the King Air 350 is a single pilot airplane.

[snip]

But from an FAA logbook perspective, how should this be logged.

Only the sole manipulator is permitted to log anything in your scenario for FAR 61.51 purposes.

Pretty straightforward.

==============================
61.51
(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.
==============================

From what you said, neither applies in your case. Other than make believe instruction, which, if discovered can lead to certificate revocation, one legitimate way for both to log is for the flying pilot to be under the hood.

 

[User546]

...one legitimate way for both to log is for the flying pilot to be under the hood.

Now THAT would be a sight to see! A King Air 350 pulling off the runway with the Captain wearing a "IFR Hood"

 

[eddie]

I think the only way to log SIC is if there is no autopilot or if you were flying Part 135, if you have a letter from the feds saying you are required to have two pilots.

Actually, the autopilot thing might be P135 as well, I can't remember.

It sucks to fly and not be able to log it though.

 

[A Squared]

Is this not case of a co-captain? Where both guys log PIC in there log books.

Just because your company calls you "co-captain" doesn't entitle you to log PIC time. The regulations do not address "co-captains" and there are certainly no special logging privileges that come with that.

 

[NoahWerka]

Does your company operates,even though it is Part 91, under Operation Specifications and a General Operations Manual approved by the FAA?
Do the Op Specs require two pilots for all operations? If so, the more restrictive of the two becomes the Regs you operate under. Therefore under your Op Specs requiring two pilots, if one is designated PIC, and the other SIC, you can legally log SIC.

 

[A Squared]

Does your company operates,even though it is Part 91, under Operation Specifications and a General Operations Manual approved by the FAA?

No, not true. A part 91 operator may have some document they refer to as "operations specifications", they may even have been reviewed by somone down at the FSDO who has too much time on his hands, but this does not make them actual Operations Specifications in accordance with part 119, and it certainly does not make them regulatory.

 

[svcta]

I'm always amazed that this is such a gray area.....part 91, single pilot type.....THERE IS NO S.I.C. Noone is ever going to buy the 'dual given' or recieved thing in an airplane like that, so I'd be careful. Log your legs if you want to be safe..... BUT, you are typed and nobody is ever going delve that deeply into a 91 operation unless you and the other guy end up in the same room with your logbooks(don't ever let that happen).