Significance of Tueday for NWA

[81Horse]

Further we aruge that the RLA does not apply since we unilterally rejected the contract and want the courts to restrain the pilots from refusing to work (self help) under the terms that we (with no agreement between the parties) have forced upon them.

Does this sound like indentured servitude to anyone else?

Boy howdy -- yes it does.

As I understand it, the RLA has never been tested in this manner. One could speculate: BK judge approves rejection of contract, NWA imposes onerous terms, pilots engage in "self help," NWA seeks injunction preventing self help, injunction granted or not granted, NWA or ALPA appeal to higher court(s), and it all ends up on the fast track to the Supremes.

Along the way, there could be fines levied upon ALPA; there could be an Executive Order of some kind; there could be arrests for violations of the RLA or court orders.

Whether or not the RLA applies in the event of a nullified contract is the question. If the courts rule that the Act does apply, well then, the pilots couldn't even quit en masse -- because that would constitute a job action.

Indentured servitude is about right.

Moving on to another question: if NWA should liquidate, wouldn't the unique rights it holds to operate to/from/beyond Japan evaporate? These are not transferable, IIRC; seems like a huge equity that actually has no cash value -- you would think the revenue stream (cargo and pax) from this segment of the company would undercut management's threat to liquidate. But maybe my understanding of these rights is incorrect -- ??

 

[AAflyer]

I think you will find what they really want is what everybody else has,unlimited 70 or so seat flying.We are not inclined to budge much on this issue seeing we have offered to fly the A/C at completive rates.Even the old guys like me are saying enough's enough the next thing they will say is the 400 fleet is to small to operate so we have to farm it out. The wages we have agreed to already are lower than other airlines that make a profit. Can't help it if management is not smart enough to run an airline.

AA does not have unlimited 70 seat flying, they currently have 25 (or so) with the ability to go to 50. However they never went through with the additional CRJ-700 purchases.

It is also my understanding CAL only has 50 seat flying, mainline has the right to fly all jets above that.

regards,

AA

 

[320AV8R]

Lear70 writes:

If the judge rules to throw out the labor contracts, the company chooses what to do next. If the company continues to operate with the current agreement in place until something new is negotiated, this could take many more months.

Mgmt hasn't negotiated anything except the pension freeze.......which saves them money. They want to wait until the very last minute, to see what plays out.

If the company immediately starts throwing things out and making changes (bad idea), you'll probably see some fireworks start (strikes, etc).

Personally, I don't think they'll come to an agreement, but I think the company will wise up and not force anything drastic down anyone's throat very quickly, leading to a long, drawn-out "beat them down" campaign until they get an agreement they like.

Mgmt thinks they have the upper hand. They are also convinced that if they shove something at the pilots, they'll cave. If they strike, Mgmt believes they can get an injunction.

They want to impose the most dire conditions they can, & still run the airline. They are salivating profusely at the repeated chance to line their pockets on the employee's backs, ala Tilton. They are devoid on any moral character, & vehemently despise all employees.


PSL writes:

We want to reject your contract (a legally binding agreement) via the use of 1113 (c) and (e) motions under the premise that the contract is one (or THE) cause for NWA being unable to emerge from Bankruptcy. Further we argue that the RLA does not apply since we unilaterally rejected the contract and want the courts to restrain the pilots from refusing to work (self help) under the terms that we (with no agreement between the parties) have forced upon them.

You broke the code.

Does this sound like indentured servitude to anyone else?

Not if you're NWA Mgmt. They consider themselves quite gracious in allowing the stinking employees, (cost units), to be able to work under such conditions.

How can the courts force a pilot group to work under terms it did not agree upon though collective bargaining if the Union (ALPA) has been certified to act as the agent for pilots ?

All I know is that it happened to Air Florida years ago.

320AV8R

 

[flyin backwards]

AA does not have unlimited 70 seat flying, they currently have 25 (or so) with the ability to go to 50. However they never went through with the additional CRJ-700 purchases.

It is also my understanding CAL only has 50 seat flying, mainline has the right to fly all jets above that.

regards,

AA

Sure are alot of eagle and express jets flying if that is the case.

 

[Boeingman]

So the question needs to be asked again, in retrospect do you guys think it was a mistake not to walk with AMFA? I don't want a history lesson but an answer based upon what everyone on the planet knew what NWA management was going to do to ALPA anyway?

 

[AAflyer]

Boeingman,

I think it may have been a mistake. It is really hard to second guess, or assume what might, would, or could happen, but I think it would have been smart to go with them, and with the FAs.

Every airline group has been watching the other lately to see how management has been playing their hand, it would be prudent to say the least I hope many ran hypothetical scenarios at their own airline.

One of the things we have discussed here at AA is the ability to conquer and divide, they attack each work group, including subsidiaries. They do it on an individual basis, chipping away at you while they work on the next group.

While the pilot group was working on the a bridge plan, they training replacement mechs, and figuring out how to outsource FAs.

I think all the unions on the property need to get together and formulate a plan together.

Just my thoughts.

AA

 

[macdu]

And you were not one of the guy's walking around in 2001 with staples in his lapel?

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman,

I think it may have been a mistake. It is really hard to second guess, or assume what might, would, or could happen, but I think it would have been smart to go with them, and with the FAs.

Every airline group has been watching the other lately to see how management has been playing their hand, it would be prudent to say the least I hope many ran hypothetical scenarios at their own airline.

One of the things we have discussed here at AA is the ability to conquer and divide, they attack each work group, including subsidiaries. They do it on an individual basis, chipping away at you while they work on the next group.

While the pilot group was working on the a bridge plan, they training replacement mechs, and figuring out how to outsource FAs.

I think all the unions on the property need to get together and formulate a plan together.

Just my thoughts.

AA

I agree, but I think it may be to little to late there. The time for union solidarity was when AMFA walked. The handwriting was on the wall but too much history and bad inter union blood prevented to allow a joint and concerted effort to stop Steenland.

NWA management has gotten a taste of victory by crushing the AMFA, now they will attempt to selectively pick off each union.

 

[AAflyer]

And you were not one of the guy's walking around in 2001 with staples in his lapel?

No I wasn't, I don't wear pins, rarely wear my jacket, and never wear my hat. Wrong guy, sorry.

AA

P.S. Get a hold of AA717, or Jeff Helgeson, I am actually on your side, and think you got shafted.