Sierra Academy or local CFI?

[00Dog]

Someone I know is looking to get into flying and has been seriously considering Sierra Academy in Oakland. I did all of my training at very small flight schools and I have a great CFI to recommend at a very reduced cost compared to what Sierra wants. Am I steering him in the wrong direction as he will probably want employment as a CFI after the training is complete or is my advice on track? I don't think the regionals care where the training was done but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

You are correct, the regionals don't care where he got his training, but you may have him check in to the possibility of working as a CFI at either flight school after he completes his training.

LAXSaabdude

 

[Timebuilder]

Your friend definitely wants to be training at a school that will hire him as a CFI. If that can be his local FBO, and they can keep him busy with students, fine.

Since that is unlikely, he might be better off at a pilot mill: greater chance of being hired as an instructor, and constant supply of students to teach.

Run the numbers, though. Sierra in in Oakland. It might be an expensive place to live as a student and as a low-paid instructor.

Have him look at all of the choices. Ask him: "do you love to fly more than anything else?" If he's in it for prestige or money, tell him to forget it. Those days are over for most pilots. In ten years the chance of ever flying for a major will have slipped from "possible" to "slim" as contracts stay competitive with non-union carriers and RJs outpace wide bodies in domestic flying. If he'd like to spend his career at a regional, then fine. Loving to fly is the key to his happiness, since money, schedule, or family time will all be on the low end.

When I got my commercial, I had visions of being perfectly happy flying an RJ for Comair. My timing was at least a year off. At least I did make it into a jet. The future? Who knows? You DO have to love to do it, though. If not, don't bother.

 

[flyboy]

If he doesn't yet have a degree I'd tell him to go to Mesa's program in NM. I had 2 friends that left Sierra and checked in to another school b/c of expense. They also had trouble getting in and out of OAK b/c of congestion and occasionally used up their block of time just taxiing and holding short for takeoff.

 

[de727ups]

save your money

If you have a good recommendation for a CFI, I'd say the small school would be much better.

 

[Ravengirl]

all I have to offer here is that the cost of pretty much everything in Oakland is high, even more so than here in the LA Basin.

 

[bobbysamd]

Which school?

Sierra Academy has been around forever and has trained tons of pilots. I personally don't know much about it, but I haven't heard all that many good things.

I tend to favor a school environment. The discipline that school imposes will serve you well later. I trained under Part 61 and got my certificates, all right, but I wish I would have had more disciplined training. I might have finished sooner and cheaper, and learned more and better.

No matter which training your friend chooses, he/she should investigate post-grad CFI employment opportunities thoroughly. I know that these days not too many schools are hiring their own graduates, simply because they don't have the openings. But, if your friend times it right, something might be open when he/she completes his/her training.

Mesa is an option and really does work. I instructed there ten years ago. It is definitely school, both on the flight line and at San Juan Colege, but the culture of the place imposes additional discipline that will help down the line.

 

[SierraPilot]

My suggestion would be to have him visit whatever schools interest him and see if he likes what they have to offer. Some people like the go at your own pace route of a FBO and others like the structured route of a academy. Personally I've been down both roads and have found at least personally for myself that I am doing alot better with the structure not to mention I get to fly alot more then I did at the local flight school. As for flying for a career I dont think it makes alot of difference when it comes to getting a job, unless the school has a relationship with the particular company.

As for getting a CFI job, last I heard their is a 2 month waitlist for a CFI job at present, however thats always subject to change as demands change.

Ryan

 

[00Dog]

Re: Which school?

I tend to favor a school environment. The discipline that school imposes will serve you well later. I trained under Part 61 and got my certificates, all right, but I wish I would have had more disciplined training. I might have finished sooner and cheaper, and learned more and better.

When one upgrades at an airline, isn't it a lot of self study? I would think preparing for the writtens and oral on one's own time would be much better practice for the future.

You also mention the discipline of the larger schools resulting in shorter training times and cost savings. While I agree with the shorter training times, it will still be way more expensive for the same certificates and ratings regardless.

I guess it comes down to this: Is it worth an extra $30K+ for a guaranteed CFI position when he is finished?

 

[Timebuilder]

I guess it comes down to this: Is it worth an extra $30K+ for a guaranteed CFI position when he is finished?

That's an excellent question.

Neither my friend nor myself, both expereinced charter guys, have so much as a CFI job, even though we are both experienced instructors. Heck, we aren't even in Florida, where you can throw a bottle of Hawaiian Tropic and hit ten CFI's who are looking for work.

Does your friend want to be able to DO anything with his CFI? In that case, having a job in the current environment could be worth more than an extra 30k, couldn't it?

 

[00Dog]

I don't have a job either.

He wants to use the CFI ,when he is finished with training, to build time. I agree it would be worth something to have that job guarantee (probably not $30K) though.

 

[buckdanny]

Guaranted job?

There is no such thing as a guaranted job at the place where you train. Thik about it this way: if say each instructor had 5 students, how many instructors would the school have after a few rounds? Even if all of the original instructors leave? A guaranted job would only work if the number of CFI produced at the mill perfectly matched attrition, which has never been the case anywhere; especially right now. Bottom line is, after you spent $60K on your training you are on your own just like everyone else. Except that everyone else might have spent less money on their training which was of equal quality.

Anyway, check your PM's.

Buck

 

[bobbysamd]

Quality training experience

When one upgrades at an airline, isn't it a lot of self study? I would think preparing for the writtens and oral on one's own time would be much better practice for the future.

Class at the airlines is like drinking from the proverbial firehose. Too much to absorb too fast. Unless you are truly disciplined, it's too easy to slack off and not study. I learned that from my own experience studying for the writtens. I would have learned more and better, and in less time, if I had attended class, hit the books, and had the overall learning experience instead of just my eyes.

I feel that it is better to receive and learn discipline as early as possible.

You also mention the discipline of the larger schools resulting in shorter training times and cost savings. While I agree with the shorter training times, it will still be way more expensive for the same certificates and ratings regardless.

The certificates might appear to be the same because everyone must exhibit the same minimal knowledge and skills to earn them. The difference lies in the quality of the training experience.

I trained (for years) under Part 61. I thought that my certificates were as good as anyone's. After I got my first full-time aviation job, instructing at ERAU, I was surprised, and chagrined, at how little I really knew. Also, my students were better pilots than I was at the same level of training. Once more, I submit that you learn better, faster, and cheaper overall, if your nose is put to the grindstone and you are under (friendly and professional) pressure to perform.

Is it worth an extra $30K+ for a guaranteed CFI position when he is finished?

For one thing, no reputable school will "guarantee" a job. A reputable school will talk up the employment opportunities it offers its grads. A school guaranteeing a job is blowing smoke up your rear. Moreover, an astute person would not rely on promises of a guaranteed job from any organization.

I would agree that pinning $30K is a lot of money on which to pin your hopes for a job after graduation, especially in these times. But you have to figure that it will pay for itself, sooner or later, in terms of eventual employment and good contacts.

Tell your friend good luck with his/her choice of training.