Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Siegel says-SW to kill USAirways

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Re: Sip, don't gulp the Blue Aide

amfteamster said:
Some of you Blue Dudes and Dudettes are really drinking to much of what ever they are feeding you guys over there at JetBlue. I agree with a320drvr, its all about the money. Its retarded to think otherwise. It is easy for the Mgmt. at JB to take the high and mighty, "we have heart, we don't want to put the last nail in the coffin" , road when you only have 55+- airplanes. In reality, if JB had the resources they would be anywhere they thought they could be to get rid of competition and make money. Its called Business. If you Blue God worshippers would take a step back and look at the situation as what it is, "A Business", not some new age esoteric movement, you might not sound so brainwashed and naive.

It all boils down to marketshare and making money!!

JMHO

You are entitled to your opinion but consider this; maybe it is possible to do both, that is, run a successful business and have a heart? I mean that you don't have to "outwardly" appear to be bullish and still be successful. Does JB consider what the others do when making business plan decisions? Absolutely. But I can tell you that our main focus is what happens in our kitchen first, and not our competitors. I know you find it hard to believe as an outsider, but then again, you don't have to.

Take care.
 
First off, I agree with everyone who's said that there are other reasons behind this company or that company moving in or "not" moving into specific markets.

I, too, though, have a problem with people saying that SWA is doing this only to "kill" USAir. It is, truly, all about money. Airways has some huge money making routes (any of their east coast hubs to Providence RI is a good example) -- did SWA convene and say "Okay, guys, how do we kill Airways the fastest?" Personally, I don' t think so. Maybe some SWA guys with the inside track can say differently - if so, I digress. SWA and Airways are truly two different products. I think SWA said "We need to make money - fast. Where can we do that?" As I've written on here before, PHL has one of the HIGHEST yields going to Chicago.

Airways, from my limited experience, doesn't seem like it needs help down the spiral here -- but Ty Webb said it - if they want to beat back SWA, or at least make it interesting for the next year or so, advertise all the things people _hate_ about SWA -- that's what the other low cost carriers seem to be doing.

-brew3
 
Jetblue320,

I think you are missing my point, simply put, JB does not have enough resources to "kill" a competitor, so its easy to put a label on what you are not doing as having heart or not wanting to hurt anyone.

I hate using analogies, but its kind've like a football game in which a win advances you in the playoffs. You realize your opponents secondary is weak. What do you do? You send out your fastest recievers to go deep and get a score. My point is if you don't have any receivers to go deep(resources), you don't have that particular option of scoring. And after the game the coach says the reason he didn't go deep is because he didn't want to hurt the secondaries feelings. Give me a break.
 
amfteamster said:
Jetblue320,

I think you are missing my point, simply put, JB does not have enough resources to "kill" a competitor, so its easy to put a label on what you are not doing as having heart or not wanting to hurt anyone.

I hate using analogies, but its kind've like a football game in which a win advances you in the playoffs. You realize your opponents secondary is weak. What do you do? You send out your fastest recievers to go deep and get a score. My point is if you don't have any receivers to go deep(resources), you don't have that particular option of scoring. And after the game the coach says the reason he didn't go deep is because he didn't want to hurt the secondaries feelings. Give me a break.

Sure, I understand your point and you are correct. We do not have the resources. My point is (and maybe I wasn't clear enough) is that label or otherwise, it is what we choose to do and although it may be hard for you to understand because you don't work for JB, we are focused on our plan and our plan is not to knock off the other guy, it is to continue to drive our own destiny. If the other guy self destructs or gets "killed", we don't want to lay claim to it. Another example would be LAS. Remember National? Did we start JFK-LAS service to "kill" them? I don't think so. Did it put "a nail in their coffin"? Probably. Did we boast that fact? Heck no. So, I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I was just sharing mine, as were you.

C yaaa
 
Mgmt at JB may indeed have a heart but if they are allowing it to influence decisions on where to offer service you guys had better keep those resumes updated.

In my opinion its all spin doctoring. JB is flexing muscle by inferring that they are strong enough to put Usair down, while hiding behing their "heart" to avoid being called out.

I believe they wish to avoid a sudden fall of USair because of the vacuum this would create (as someone mentioned earlier). This would quite possibly lead to an immediate toe to toe confrontation with SWA. At this stage in the game JB could not Direct TV and blue potato chip and pilot-with-goatee their way out of that.
 
David Seagull said, "SWA is going to kill us".

Not so fast Mr. Seagull.

USAir has been killing themselves for over 10 years. Starting with the fact that they have never defined what they do. Which best describes USAir as a carrier? International, low cost, East coast, domestic, long haul, or short haul? When you are getting beat at every juncture wouldn't it be a good idea to figure out what you do and work to improve that specialty? Or at least modify your business plan to have a specialty?

Secondly, SWA is ONLY going into PHL to make money. If USAir fails its not because SWA showed up on the doorstep unnanounced. SWA announced PHL last fall, plenty of time to get your ducks in a row. Adapt and overcome.

SWA goes into markets where the pricing is ripe for the taking. We did it in TX, CA, AZ, FL, and have historically done it on the E coast. Years ago when we took BWI from USAir that should have given them a clue of things to come. Yet, nothing was done, no battle plan enacted to defend the Hubs.

Poor management over the years is what is going to kill USAir, not SWA.

Note My best friend is a furloughed USAir pilot...he feels the same way as I do on this subject. Also, Mr. Seagull was my former boss.

A more accurate message Mr. Seagull should have conveyed would have been," When SWA comes to PHL, we are going to kill ourselves".
 
Just watched the streamline video link posted by dlredline, thanks.

What a joke, Seagull is a major tool. How far behind the eight ball you have to get before you start doing business better. The most blantently obvious downfall is his own admittal that Airways does not have a good website. Come on now, the internet isn't exactly new. Everyone knows a computer doesn't call in sick and doesn't need any benefits...HELLO...lower operating costs.

It is a little late now to go begging your employees to save the company. The employees have given back soooo much already and management has pissed it all away.

This has nothing to do with JetBlue, SWA or anyone else for that matter. The employees could work for free and mangement still would lose money, fumbling idiots.

Best of luck but it doesn't look good.
 
Last edited:
PHILADELPHIA, March 25 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV - News) today announced a major expansion of its soon-to-begin service to and from Philadelphia International Airport.

Today, during his address before the World Affairs Council of Philadelphia, Southwest Chairman Herb Kelleher made the exciting news announcement that 14 more daily nonstop departures will be added to Southwest's schedule, effective July 6. This will bring to 28 the number of daily nonstop departures Southwest will operate from Philadelphia by mid- summer.

"The response to Southwest's initial announcement of flights has been overwhelming," Kelleher said. "Philly Customers said, 'We Want More,' and we're happy to deliver."

Effective July 6, 2004, Southwest will begin 14 additional daily nonstop flights to the following cities: Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood (one daily), Houston Hobby (one daily), Los Angeles International Airport (one daily), Manchester, N.H. (four daily), New Orleans (one daily), Raleigh/Durham (four daily), Tampa Bay (adding one nonstop for a total of two daily); and West Palm Beach (one daily).

As previously announced, Southwest Airlines will begin its Philadelphia service May 9, 2004, with a total of 14 daily nonstop flights to the following cities: Chicago Midway (three daily), Las Vegas (one daily), Orlando (three daily), Phoenix (one daily), Providence (five daily), and Tampa Bay (one daily).
 
If jetBlue has such a big heart why did they place bids to buy some of U's old furniture? Why did they pick on Delta in ATL? I'd say jetBlue is working their business plan and right now it does not involve PHL or CLT.

CLT has some really high airfares. You heard it here first! SWA is going into CLT by the Fall. By October 2004.
 
If jetBlue has such a big heart why did they place bids to buy some of U's old furniture?

Pretty soon everybody will be bidding on U's stuff.

Its called a fire sale.

I hear Branson is talking to Usair regarding some of its assets.
 
After watching the video of his presentation, I kept asking myself: "Is this really the CEO of an airline?" He kept stammering and fumbling through his presentation, and all while using "cue" cards propped on the ground under the camera. "Clueless" is the optimum word that comes to mind. No wonder they seem so rudderless, THEY ARE!

The main concept of the presentation was the reduction of unit costs. U sits in the $.10/seat mile range while SWA and JBLU sits around $.06. In order to get to 6 cents to insure survival, Siegal needs (1) 2 cents from restructuring the airline, and (2) 2 cents from the employees. Operationally, they intend to:

- increased aircraft utilization (duh)
- more seats on each aircraft (with less legroom, of course, yah, that's smart)
- more efficient scheduling (something he should've already been doing)
- distribution costs

From the employees, he wants:

- productivity enhancements (rigs and work rules)
- pay reductions (rumored in the 25% range)
- reductions in benefits


As someone else mentioned, this all sounds fine, but attempting unit costs of six cents per mile simply will NOT happen at US Airways. JCMDave made no mention of Continental's unit costs, which are in the nine-cent neighborhood and keep in mind that Continental predicted being profitable this year were it not for the high fuel prices affecting the industry. He constantly blaimed Southwest for their plight, and interestingly looked closer to America West as the model they should emulate (hub carrier with similar fleet).

One important point he made was that 70% of US Airways' mainline flying is unprofitable (their average cost is $130/passenger, but their average ticket revenue is $115/passenger. You don't have to be launching stuff into space to read between these lines. MDA, MidAtlantic, or whatever you want to call it, is the future for U's mainline domestic operation (if GECAS doesn't pull the financing plug). And he also mentioned the "F" word (furloughs), saying there will be additional ones. Incredible! Great way to build the confidence in the troops. Overall, the presentation was very conceptual, with no real "plan" brought forth. Again, "clueless".

Some various Dave Siegel quotes:

"Sometimes you have to shrink first - you've got to prune the system to grow." (you've got to be kidding? Sure, this worked great the last time, Dave.)

"I also know that we need to change the culture." (just realized that, Dave? After 2 years on the job?)

"I'm personally committed to making sacrifices along with everybody else. I've done that and I'm willing to do that and I told Dr. Bronner - again a little speculation in the press - I've told him I'm willing to walk away from that multi-million dollar golden parachute that comes to me in April - I'm going to walk away from that and I'm committed to staying. And I also told him that I'm willing to accept the same kind of compensation, give me a new contract, that looks like how the CEOs of the other low-cost carriers get paid - pay me the same way - I want to do that. And I am prepared to lead this fight, I'm not going to cut and run. I'm prepared to lead this company and lead this fight against Southwest." (insert your own comment here)

"What we know now, unfortunately, is we can't deny what's happening with low-cost carriers." (double duh!)

I'm proud of my 15 years of service there, having worked in the training department and flown as Captain for a short time. I came across some of the finest people you can ever imagine. But I truly am embarassed by the man-child in charge at U, and after watching this video, I fear for the future of many fine professional aviators. Dave Siegel can't run an airline. That's more apparent than ever, now.

I do wish the pilot's of USAirways the best. The certainly deserve better than the hand dealt them.

Red
 
Last edited:
SWA F/O,

According to the higher ups at jetBlue, there was no bid for any USAirways asset. Take it FWIW.
 
Interesting quote off another website...

Commenting on Mr. Siegels superior business sense...

"...to just jam them in and throw peanuts at them like Southwest does. This is the old way of doing business." - Dave Siegel

By the way Mr. Siegel, the "old way" is coming to PHI to kick your ass and then kill you!
 
Last edited:
Seigel is an idiot

The best way to ensure U's demise is to make WN employees realize there is a fight on.

He rallied the troops alright, unfortunately, they work for Southwest.

Good luck to all those at U. You deserve better.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that USAirways CAN survive the upcoming PHL dogfight with Southwest. How ,you might ask .... Simple , put the company back into Chapter 11, install a new management from top to bottom( only young motivated outside the box thinkers need apply..... Harvard MBA not required!!!) Pack said-team's bags and send them to sunny PHX and have them go to AWA and take notes on how to slash costs and restructure a sick airline. A few of my friends who work for AWA think USAir's situation is very much like the situation AWA faced in 1991. Back then AWA dominated the PHX hub with a product very similar to what SWA offered .(ie all-coach, snacks for meals,etc) Needless to say SWA enters the PHX market with USAir's drawn down of PSA's old routes with the insuing battle for PHX resulting in PHX-LAX tickets going for as low as $19 one-way!! Of course this and other management mis-steps along the way led to AWA filing Chap. 11 in the early 1990's . During their stay in CH 11 , however ,someone , somewhere realized 2 things. First SWA now had a lot of flights out of PHX (ie " they are here to kill us") and secondly if we are to survive we have to differentiate our product.(the old you can't "out -Southwest" Southwest axiom) So this person bless his beady little management heart ,realizing that his biggest competitor in and out of PHX is now SWA and their low-cost workforce, also realizes that he too has a low cost work force and decides to differentiate his product by adding First Class service and assigned seating. Bottom line , today out of PHX you have 2 vibrant low cost carrieres competing sucessfully offering 2 distinctly different products to the traveling public. I really think that if USAirways can get a young vibrant mgm't team on board and mirror what AWA has done in terms of a complete top to bottom overhaul of every aspect of the way the company does business from aircraft overhauls, to employee productivity , to wages and benefits ,to internet usage and strict almost draconian adherence to cost controls so as to maintain the lowest possible CASM ,then I see no reason why USAirways can't be a successfull competitor against SWA out of PHL in much the same way AWA is a successfull competitor against SWA out of PHX. Sort of an East Coast version of AWA ,if you will.

Standing by for in-coming:D

PHXFLYR
:cool:
 
Last edited:
PHXFLYR,

Good ideas. I think the Alabama Retirement folks wold have to do the management restructuring. And I'm not so sure they are up to doing so, even at this point there has been no changes coming down the pipeline.

Also, there is a helluva lot more competiton on the E coast.

The thing is that USAir needs to do is dramatically change their position, in that I mean define what they do and do it well. It may take another CHPTR 11 to just that. In fact it will most likely take CHPTR 11.

Who knows....
 
"to wages and benefits ,to internet usage and strict almost draconian adherence to cost controls so as to maintain the lowest possible CASM ,then I see no reason why USAirways can't be a successfull competitor against SWA out of PHL in much the same way AWA is a successfull competitor against SWA out of PHX. Sort of an East Coast version of AWA ,if you will."

And how much does a Capt make at AWA? Yippee, I can hardly contain my excitement.
:rolleyes: Maybe we can all be "successful competitors", all making wages around half of what they are today. The prospect makes me giddy with joy :rolleyes:
 

Latest resources

Back
Top