Shut up, son, I am a CFI and I know what I am doing

[Vladimir Lenin]

What part is this school operating under?

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3917609/detail.html

 

[siucavflight]

Is there something here that I am missing?

 

[atrdriver]

I think the question is why was an instructor descending through clouds without an IFR clearance, which he presumably would not have on a first private lesson.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I think the question is why was an instructor descending through clouds without an IFR clearance, which he presumably would not have on a first private lesson.

That was my first thought.

And now this poor kid will probably never set foot in an airplane, nor will he ever enter another essay writing contest.

 

[avbug]

Dotterweich told sheriff's investigators the plane had climbed above low-lying clouds but clipped the trees while descending.

I don't see anything in that statement that suggests that the flight was conducted in or close to any clouds. Only that the aircraft was above some low clouds at some point.

Media reports are notoriously inaccurate. Observations from non-pilots can be wildly inaccurate. The quotation above, from the article in question, describes a statement made by the 17 year old boy on his first lesson. Media reports utilizing observations from non-pilots can be fanciful at best. I see nothing here that provides any useful information upon which to speculate or point fingers.

The only thing known about this evoloution is that the aircraft crashed. That's it.

Before you crucify the instructor, not knowing if the flight experienced an engine failure or other condition that lead to the crash, perhaps you ought to seek out the facts, or wait for them to be provided.

Ya think?

 

[bobbysamd]

I saw film (tape) of this incident on another newscast. That newscast said nothing about bad wx or anything else that could have contributed to this accident. Thus, I would second Avbug. There is not enough information at hand to draw a conclusion as to the cause of the accident.

Don't be so quick to point the finger until you have all the facts. I would agree that this 17-year-old won't want to take any more flying lessons any time soon.

 

[DenverDude2002]

Geez, Air West looses more 152's than anywhere else I know of. I flew in a 152 with them in nov, 01, in jan 01 that one was totaled, now its replacement is totaled. Im not sure whats going on at Air West anymore, i didnt even think they instructed anymore. And a little interesting sidenote, Siver Creek HS is a brand new HS that opened 4 yrs ago and is 1 mile south of Vance Brand under the pattern for 29.

Interesting sidenote: Ive hiked at Heil Ranch before, its a valley 2 foothills over from the plains, easy to get to as well, and its probably a good 5-7 miles south of Lyons.

 

[atrdriver]

I wasn't trying to point any fingers, all I was saying that if the story was accurate and the instructor descended through low clouds then I would be interested in knowing why. As far as if there was an engine failure I think that would have been reported, even a 17 year old on his first lesson can tell when it gets really quiet.

 

[avbug]

You ask if the story is accurate. Maybe, maybe not. But the story says nothing about flight adjacent to, in, or through clouds. Low or otherwise. Only that the airplane contacted trees, and that at some point it was above low clouds. If you want accuracy, be accurate. But for the sake of accuracy, don't read into the story what's not there.

Would a 17 year old have mentioned something? I don't know. We don't know. No information is given. A bird strike. A surface to air missle. A cockpit fire. An attack by poison arrow frogs. An engine failure. A suicidal instructor. Too much viagra. Who knows? And more to the point, why speculate when no one knows?

Accurately, we know the airplane crashed, and that is it.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

In the original article, the kid was quoted as saying that they ascended above a low cloud layer after a series of climbs and turns.

 

[atrdriver]

You ask if the story is accurate. Maybe, maybe not. But the story says nothing about flight adjacent to, in, or through clouds. Low or otherwise. Only that the airplane contacted trees, and that at some point it was above low clouds. If you want accuracy, be accurate. But for the sake of accuracy, don't read into the story what's not there.

This is in the updated article:

"Dotterweich told sheriff's investigators the plane had climbed above low-lying clouds but clipped the trees while descending."

The story has been updated, the original story stated that they contacted trees while descending through the cloud layer. I would not have said what I said if the story had not stated that in the first place. Notice that the article was posted around 6pm mountain time yesterday, then updated around 12pm today. The one that I commented on was the one posted at 6pm yesterday.

 

[dseagrav]

It's probably just another failed attempt to buzz Zweck's farm. You know it as well as I do!

(Fnord!)