should I leave MESA for Air Wisconsin?

[jetdriven]

All this talk about how good air wisconsin is has got me thinking about leaving MESA for AirWis... I am currently on the be1900D as a 1.5 year FO, but I do have the 1900D type, I was furloughed right after I got it so I was never captain. I could upgrade here for 30.00 per hour on the 1900. What can I expect of Air Wisconsin?? LET'S HEAR IT!!

 

[generaltso]

If you are close to upgrading on the 1900, I would stick it out and get some PIC before you look elsewhere. 1000 turbine PIC will open some doors for you, and if you leave now, it may be a few years before you get a hold of it.

 

[s.o.sJTB]

If you have the oppurtunity to go to awac, by all means take it, your second year rj fo pay will be higher than your 1900 captain pay, sure it will take longer to gain the 1000 pic hrs, but nobody is really going anywhere for awhile. When the time comes the rj time will look better than the 1900 time anyway. There are tons of other facts to consider of course, but from what I've heard about mesa and johhny o yer probably better off at awac.

 

[bigsky]

Stay at Mesa and get 1000 pic turbine! After that you can worry probably fly the jungle jet there. I personally dont believe that sic time is that important. Heck I was a captain at American eagle but am a couple hundred short of 1000. I now have been a fo on a wide body flying international for 2 years and cant even send jet blue, fedex, ups, or SWA an application. I guess I would be more marketable if I flew a carvan or something.

Also remember this- no matter how good Wisconsin looks...things can change quick. Next thing you know upgrade goes from 2 years to 7. It is a lateral movement so in my opinion it is not worth the risk.

 

[Simon Says]

Mesa or Air Wisconsin?.............That is similiar to asking should I stay at McDonalds flipping burgers or should I go wait tables at a 4 star resturant.

What are you waiting for.............Go to Air Willy.

 

[jetdriven]

are the newhires going into the D328 or the jet? What are the upgrade times on each? I know the 328 is a deadend but could I still upgrade on it before it goes away?

 

[JetPilot500]

I don't know a thing about AWAC or Mesa. But, I do have a friend that worked for Mesa and United. And a few years back, I asked him, what he thought about United? His response to me was, "Comparing Mesa to United, Its the same Circus but a bigger Tent." What he told me was that even comparing a commuter to a major, you will see the same BS. Its still the airlines. Granted his airplane and paycheck was bigger at UAL, but you find similar issues at any airline.

My advice, don't leave for a few extra $$. Giving up your seniority at one place and going somewhere else and being low man on the totem pole could put you at some serious risk for being on the street again. Seniority is everything at the airlines, don't give it up for an almost lateral move. Get the PIC time, keep building seniority and move into Mesas jets when the opportunity arises.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[FamilyMan]

Let’s do a simple comparison.

AWIS

Better pay
Better retirement
Growing Airline
Potential for THREE type ratings, (the majors like this)
Most importantly, HAPPY/CONTENT pilots!!!!


MESA

Maybe you can think if something, I can't.


The choice is simple,
Family Man

 

[jetdriven]

MESA : Maybe you can think if something, I can't.

funny thing is...neither can I. I already got a free type rating from them.
How do I get hired there and what is competitive? I have 2900TT, 1100 SIC turbine, 1600 multi. I also have about 10 hours PIC turbine. all this in the 1900D, I was a freightdog before in twin cessnas.
thanks for all the information in advance.

 

[414Flyer]

Well I might get flamed for this, but I think there is a he1l of a lot more to being a pilot and being in aviation than how fast you can get PIC time, or how big of a plane you fly. To me, it aint some race to the top, although to some it is.

If I had that choice, I would go to AWAC in a heartbeat. Quality of life will be far better, you will make more as an FO there an a Captain at Mesa (at least in 2nd year). Right now, there are tons of people out there out of jobs and looking, who have lots of turbine PIC, and there arent that many jobs anyways. It will be YEARS before that majors hire again, so if that is your goal, you will get your PIC turbine at AWAC before then

You can be at AWAC, and still have a nice lifestyle, even if you never get to a major airline. You will be lucky to ever get that at Mesa.

 

[Boz]

"Comparing Mesa to United, Its the same Circus but a bigger Tent." What he told me was that even comparing a commuter to a major, you will see the same BS. Its still the airlines

Well if its the same thing then why leave for a few extra bucks!!!

You make it sound like Mesa and UAL are airlines that have similar contracts and work rules. This is not the case, trust me have flown with guys from all different backgrounnds. i.e. MESA, Gulfstream, Great Lakes, Mesaba, Eagle, Army, Navy, Air Force, etc... Never have I heard a comparison to the one you state. Anyway brother you need to do a little research before making it sound like they are the similar except one is bigger.

 

[bobbysamd]

Air Wisc v. Mesa

I worked at MAPD briefly nine years ago, so I know a little about the company. I indeed realize that was when Larry Risley et al ran the place and that things improved somewhat when ALPA came in. I also remember that Air Wisconsin was popular with pilots even ten years ago and longer.

Usually, my advice is not to give up any kind of seniority number at any airline, no matter how bad it is. In this case, there really isn't much to think about. We know all the Freedom Air rumors. We have read plenty about Mr. O's other efforts to circumvent the union, which has been Mesa's position historically. I, for one, have heard nothing but positives about Air Wisconsin. Therefore, my .02 advice would be to leave Mesa and go to Air Whiskey.

Once again, it's only my two cents. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[generaltso]

You have to look long term and try to resist the short term temptations. Air Wis is, I am sure, a great airline. But if you upgrade on the 1900 and get some turbine time, you could put yourself in a position to get on with Southwest, JetBlue, etc. If I were you I would get the 1000 turbine PIC before moving. Once you get that, then if you still want to leave Mesa then you should have a choice of many regionals... or if SWA/JB is hiring you would have the minimums.

You never know when the majors (economy) will come around. You need to put yourself in a position to be competitive when it does come around. That means turbine PIC.

Do you have a college degree?

 

[MINIME]

Let's face it boys and girls, we are in for the long haul. We would all love to have 1000 hours of cappy time but is it really gonna get you to the so called next step? Not only No but in most cases HELL NO!! DAL still furloughing, AMR still furloughing, UAL contemplating bankruptcy, SWA not hiring anytmore, at least in the foreseeable future, CAL who knows but deffinitely not hiring any time soon, NWA just seems to be cruising letting Pennacle grow more and more.

My friends.....the regionals is where it is now at days! Sooooo get comfortable, real comfortable and ride the storm out. As for the person who has a choice between Mesa and Air Whisky, I'd say jump to Air Whisky and at least have descent pay and quality of life while we ALL wait.

Just my honest .02

 

[Beechnut]

I agree with the idea of getting the left seat for a 1000 hours then comming over. If you've been able to handle 1.5 years at Mesa in the right seat of the 1900, I would think you could stick it out a bit more to get the time. Once at AirWis, who knows when you'll upgrade. Forget what your hearing about upgrade times now, those apply to folks that were hired 1 to 3 years ago. Your situation could be different.

Good Luck!

S.

 

[jetdriven]

or if SWA/JB is hiring you would have the minimums.

You never know when the majors (economy) will come around. You need to put yourself in a position to be competitive when it does come around. That means turbine PIC.

Do you have a college degree?

JB requires 1000 PIC in aircraft over 20,000 lbs and the 1900D is 17,120.

I have a 2 year Associates in Aviation. so, kinda.

whats the upgrade time if I were to get hired into the 328?

 

[VFR on Top]

Well, seems to me you can go elsewhere on your terms, or you can wait til Ornstein gives your job to a Freedom Air pilot.

The choice is entirely up to you.

 

[Boz]

I did not make my point earlier but I would goto Air Wisc. When the majors do ressume hiring? and who the hel! knows when that will be, you will have plently of RJ, BAe-146 PIC time along with all the other that somehow go through this airline funel process. Good luck to you whatever you decide.

BOZ

 

[throttlejockey]

JetDriven:

Looking at your profile, it seems that we are at the same point in our careers (I have 3000 TT, and have 1.5 Yrs as an FO on a 19 seater).

I cannot give you any direct career advice but I would definately ask the following questions:

1) How much seniority do you have right now? Will you be close to holding a line if you upgrade soon? How much movement is happening in the company now? Route expansion or contraction?

If there is a chance that you will move up pretty quick then there is no doubt that I would stay and get the 1000 PIC Turbine. (There is no movement where I am so I am considering leaving, even though I am one of the most senior F/O's on the property. However, If we were to grow back to our Pre 9/11 size, I would immediately become a lineholding captain).

2) If you leave to go to another carrier, you will be on the bottom of the list, is the new carrier positioned well in the market? Is there a chance you can get hired and then furloughed right afterwards?

The old saying goes, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."
(Is the UAL situation good or bad for AWAC? Most likely good, but who can really tell?)

3) Are you happy with your schedules or your commute? Do you live at your base?

If you will have a better commute, or no commute at all by leaving to go someplace else, you may want to take that into consideration. (I am considering AWAC because I live at one of their bases, whereas I commute now. However, my company is commuter friendly so the commute is really good for me. But that could change.)

4) Can you survive on your pay now? Do you have a support network (friends or family) that you would give up if you left?

If you can survive now, you should do much better in CA pay even if it is only at a 1900 pay rate. Do not leave to go elsewhere if you have to give up your support network. (I would not take a new job if I had to pack up and leave. My family lives here, and I am a kept man so my rent is free! (Or so I think!)

5) Are you so fed up with your company that it gets you down?

I feel that way about the outfit I am at. But, then again, is the grass really that much greener on the other side of the fence?

6) Take a look at your resume, what do you really need to be ready for the next upswing in the market?

Judging from your profile, you need 1000 PIC Turbine, and a 4 year degree. Sure, 1000 PIC Turbine in the 1900 is not as good as 1000 PIC in the CL-65, but it will get you hired at most every airline in existance except for JetBlue. In addition, you may be able to bid out of the 1900 after you get your 1000 PIC. Also, Corporate and Fractional Operators like guys with 1000 PIC Turbine too. Remember, industry downturns are times to improve your resumes and qualifications. Downturns are not good times to hunker down and wait.

You may also want to consider finishing your schooling by getting your bachelors degree.

7) Where do you want to be in five years?

I know that I do not want to be working here in five years. I also know that I want to be employed by the company where I will retire within 5 years. Therefore, I need to position myself now, so that within the next few years I have all the necessary items on my resume so that I have a competative chance of making it to that final place. Going to another regional, without giving myself the chance to improve my qualifications now seems to be a lose-lose situation. If in 5 years, I am not where I want to be - I will make a new plan. I might settle for less, or I may get out. But, I want to stay the course that I originally set until the writing on the wall tells me to jump ship.

In my instance, the writing on the wall is written in grease pencil, so it isn't perminent - yet!

throttlejockey

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

AWAC just expanded and is now going to fly as a feeder for AirTran using RJs based in ATL.

I would go to AWAC ASAP, as you can comfortably retire from there if you need/want to, and I don't believe there are a lot of guys retiring from MESA.

Cliff
GRB