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should I go to Cathy Pacific ?
- Thread starter 9rj9
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One question, and one quasi answer.
q: Since I have not been in the interview loop for a while, I am curious as to your flight experience, If you do not mind sharing it.
a: By acceting an interview you will not be going against the ban. Not everybody who is interviewed is hired. (recently about 40% for first interview, higher % for second interview are hired.)
q: Since I have not been in the interview loop for a while, I am curious as to your flight experience, If you do not mind sharing it.
a: By acceting an interview you will not be going against the ban. Not everybody who is interviewed is hired. (recently about 40% for first interview, higher % for second interview are hired.)
Don't do it
OK here is the scoop.
I interviewed there in MAR '01. I went straight to the interview in Hong Kong. I had a friend who works there and he talked highly about it. There are some serious drawbacks about the position though.
1. You will be banned from IALPA, the parent organization of ALPA. So you will be a scab forever no matter where you work.
2. Only 25% of their pilots are in the union and they can't work , or strike as a group because they have no organization. They had numerous pilot pay levels, so the older senior pilots do not have a reason to strike because they have it pretty good while the junior guys take it in the shorts.
3. The position I got hired for was FO on a 747 freighter and they gave me my choice of US bases. I wanted NY. However, they do not have jumpseat rights with anyone because they are an INTL company. The current pilots BUY id90 tickets to commute to work.
4. The bid system is awful. You do not bid!!! No matter how senior you are the company assigns you your schedule each month. You have no say in your schedule. Also, if you want any say in your vacation period you have to request it 1 year in advance and you are not guaranteed to get what you want. Also, the schedule you get may not be what you actually fly. The freight schedule slides and therefore so does your flight schedule. No way to plan a life.
5. Training is 6-9 months in Hong Kong without coming home.
6. If this is a freighter position you do that for 3 years and then you can switch to mainline or stay in freighters. Mainline pilots make way more money but at about the 7 yr point you have to live in Hong Kong to move up.
7. Very disorganized company. I interviewed in MAR and did not get offered the job until OCT '01.
So, if you want a free trip to Hong Kong and want interview practice go for it but do not work there.
Keeb
OK here is the scoop.
I interviewed there in MAR '01. I went straight to the interview in Hong Kong. I had a friend who works there and he talked highly about it. There are some serious drawbacks about the position though.
1. You will be banned from IALPA, the parent organization of ALPA. So you will be a scab forever no matter where you work.
2. Only 25% of their pilots are in the union and they can't work , or strike as a group because they have no organization. They had numerous pilot pay levels, so the older senior pilots do not have a reason to strike because they have it pretty good while the junior guys take it in the shorts.
3. The position I got hired for was FO on a 747 freighter and they gave me my choice of US bases. I wanted NY. However, they do not have jumpseat rights with anyone because they are an INTL company. The current pilots BUY id90 tickets to commute to work.
4. The bid system is awful. You do not bid!!! No matter how senior you are the company assigns you your schedule each month. You have no say in your schedule. Also, if you want any say in your vacation period you have to request it 1 year in advance and you are not guaranteed to get what you want. Also, the schedule you get may not be what you actually fly. The freight schedule slides and therefore so does your flight schedule. No way to plan a life.
5. Training is 6-9 months in Hong Kong without coming home.
6. If this is a freighter position you do that for 3 years and then you can switch to mainline or stay in freighters. Mainline pilots make way more money but at about the 7 yr point you have to live in Hong Kong to move up.
7. Very disorganized company. I interviewed in MAR and did not get offered the job until OCT '01.
So, if you want a free trip to Hong Kong and want interview practice go for it but do not work there.
Keeb
Keeb is right about many of his points. One thing he is very incorrect about is the fact that we are a disorganized company. We are many things, but disorganised is something that we are not.
Like said before, interviewing will not put you in a bad light, accepting a position will. If you care.
Like said before, interviewing will not put you in a bad light, accepting a position will. If you care.
MyRadarIsOut
Truth Seeker
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2002
- Posts
- 20
Anybody have the interview scoop? Process? Questions and answers?
Have my Application already filled out, but it has been sitting on my desk about 2 months. I was worried about sending it in.
I also want to go through the interview at CP, and go back to Hong Kong.
I got on here to post the same question as 9rj9, but I definitely will NOT take the job if offered to me, until the ban is lifted, if ever.
Have my Application already filled out, but it has been sitting on my desk about 2 months. I was worried about sending it in.
I also want to go through the interview at CP, and go back to Hong Kong.
I got on here to post the same question as 9rj9, but I definitely will NOT take the job if offered to me, until the ban is lifted, if ever.
falcondrivr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2001
- Posts
- 111
QuietBirdMan
Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2002
- Posts
- 23
The CEO of Cathay once fired a captain he saw throwing peanuts in a bar. The capt. was off-duty, in civilian clothes, on his day off in Hong Kong. Needless to say the HKAOA was pretty hacked off about the situation, then came the "49ers"
Here is a copy of the letter that went out:
Fellow professional pilots:
The International Federation of Allied Pilots Association (IFALPA) has placed a recruitment ban on Cathay Pacific Airways. If you would be so kind as to spare me a few minutes of your time, I would like to tell you a little about why that ban was put in place.
Between July 06 and July 12 of this year, Cathay Pacific "randomly" sacked 52 of its aircrew. Hong Kong law states that no reason is required to sack an individual if he is given sufficient notice or pay in lieu. I was one of those 52 and like the others received absolutely no notice. The "random" dismissals included 5 out of 20 Union committee members and 4 out of 7 negotiators. There was no link with flying capability, as all had fine training records. Three of the sacked pilot's spouses were pregnant. Most of the 52 have families and dependents to support. One pilot was receiving cancer treatment and another treatment for a serious heart condition at the time of his termination.
The dismissals were meant to send a strong signal to the union to back off from its negotiation requests and industrial action. Ironically, it has had the opposite effect. On July 09, 49 of the 52 pilots were fired, earning those in the entire group the title of "49ers". The press release on July 09 was arrogantly entitled "The way to end the pilot's dispute". Their objectives are not financial (reported profits for the year 2000 was $640 million USD), but rather to crush the pilot's union as they have done with every other union on company property. In the first two weeks of the dispute, the company had lost more money on charters and forward bookings than the entire value of the union's requests.
Some of the 49ers were called in the middle of the night and read a termination notice. Others were away and their surprised spouses received the termination letter by fax. One tried to enter the building only to find his employee card did not work. I found out with a DHL package in my mailbox and have not heard from the company since. However, they have advised the Hong Kong Tax Department that we were all leaving town on short notice (untrue of course) and we were all therefore presented with a bill for 1 1/2 years worth of income tax due in less than a week. I have yet to receive a dime from the company.
The dispute occurred due to repeated contract violations and pointless talks to resolve discrimination and unstable rostering. There are currently 32 different contracts for Cathay Pacific's 1500 pilots. B scale is the tip of the iceberg. If a pilot of Chinese heritage applies from overseas, he may be hired on a local package (worth approximately half of an overseas expatriate package), because he has inherited the right to work in Hong Kong from his parents. This is irrelevant of his experience level and whether or not he speaks a word of Chinese or has ever set foot in Hong Kong.
Rosters are almost comically unstable. It is not uncommon to be rostered for a short haul flight or a simulator, only to be hauled out after sign-on to perform a 5-day pattern of ultra long haul. The vast majority of flights do not go with the crew they were rostered for. It is impossible to predict where you will be on any given day of the month. One sacked pilot had only worked 2 rostered flights in the 4 months preceding his termination.
I, as with all the 49ers, am now working full time for the union. We do not consider ourselves "fallen", but instead, we consider ourselves "hostages" in an industrial confrontation. Accordingly, all Cathay Pacific pilots are now wearing yellow ribbons on their uniform to remind everyone of our predicament. Spouses, peers and friends have also attached a yellow ribbon to their chest to remind the public.
Although I devoted most of my free time to the union prior to this dispute (I was not credited for any union time by the company), all of the 49ers are now employees of the union, devoted to a fair contract and rehire. It is this union's policy not to sign any agreement not including full reinstatement of the 49ers.
IFALPA has instituted this band so that others do not come to Cathay Pacific to fill my position and the positions of the 51 others. It is important for your peers to realise that a pilot may attend an interview, but would be permanently “blackballed” by IFALPA for signing a contract or accepting any flying position with Cathay Pacific Airways until this dispute is resolved and the ban lifted. Please forward on this message to your fellow aviators.
Thank you for your time.
Anyone out there....think of these guys before you join Cathay. Don't go work for a company that treats employees like this. Don't fall for their BS. And don't take someone else's job.
Here is a copy of the letter that went out:
Fellow professional pilots:
The International Federation of Allied Pilots Association (IFALPA) has placed a recruitment ban on Cathay Pacific Airways. If you would be so kind as to spare me a few minutes of your time, I would like to tell you a little about why that ban was put in place.
Between July 06 and July 12 of this year, Cathay Pacific "randomly" sacked 52 of its aircrew. Hong Kong law states that no reason is required to sack an individual if he is given sufficient notice or pay in lieu. I was one of those 52 and like the others received absolutely no notice. The "random" dismissals included 5 out of 20 Union committee members and 4 out of 7 negotiators. There was no link with flying capability, as all had fine training records. Three of the sacked pilot's spouses were pregnant. Most of the 52 have families and dependents to support. One pilot was receiving cancer treatment and another treatment for a serious heart condition at the time of his termination.
The dismissals were meant to send a strong signal to the union to back off from its negotiation requests and industrial action. Ironically, it has had the opposite effect. On July 09, 49 of the 52 pilots were fired, earning those in the entire group the title of "49ers". The press release on July 09 was arrogantly entitled "The way to end the pilot's dispute". Their objectives are not financial (reported profits for the year 2000 was $640 million USD), but rather to crush the pilot's union as they have done with every other union on company property. In the first two weeks of the dispute, the company had lost more money on charters and forward bookings than the entire value of the union's requests.
Some of the 49ers were called in the middle of the night and read a termination notice. Others were away and their surprised spouses received the termination letter by fax. One tried to enter the building only to find his employee card did not work. I found out with a DHL package in my mailbox and have not heard from the company since. However, they have advised the Hong Kong Tax Department that we were all leaving town on short notice (untrue of course) and we were all therefore presented with a bill for 1 1/2 years worth of income tax due in less than a week. I have yet to receive a dime from the company.
The dispute occurred due to repeated contract violations and pointless talks to resolve discrimination and unstable rostering. There are currently 32 different contracts for Cathay Pacific's 1500 pilots. B scale is the tip of the iceberg. If a pilot of Chinese heritage applies from overseas, he may be hired on a local package (worth approximately half of an overseas expatriate package), because he has inherited the right to work in Hong Kong from his parents. This is irrelevant of his experience level and whether or not he speaks a word of Chinese or has ever set foot in Hong Kong.
Rosters are almost comically unstable. It is not uncommon to be rostered for a short haul flight or a simulator, only to be hauled out after sign-on to perform a 5-day pattern of ultra long haul. The vast majority of flights do not go with the crew they were rostered for. It is impossible to predict where you will be on any given day of the month. One sacked pilot had only worked 2 rostered flights in the 4 months preceding his termination.
I, as with all the 49ers, am now working full time for the union. We do not consider ourselves "fallen", but instead, we consider ourselves "hostages" in an industrial confrontation. Accordingly, all Cathay Pacific pilots are now wearing yellow ribbons on their uniform to remind everyone of our predicament. Spouses, peers and friends have also attached a yellow ribbon to their chest to remind the public.
Although I devoted most of my free time to the union prior to this dispute (I was not credited for any union time by the company), all of the 49ers are now employees of the union, devoted to a fair contract and rehire. It is this union's policy not to sign any agreement not including full reinstatement of the 49ers.
IFALPA has instituted this band so that others do not come to Cathay Pacific to fill my position and the positions of the 51 others. It is important for your peers to realise that a pilot may attend an interview, but would be permanently “blackballed” by IFALPA for signing a contract or accepting any flying position with Cathay Pacific Airways until this dispute is resolved and the ban lifted. Please forward on this message to your fellow aviators.
Thank you for your time.
Anyone out there....think of these guys before you join Cathay. Don't go work for a company that treats employees like this. Don't fall for their BS. And don't take someone else's job.
pegasus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2002
- Posts
- 155
QuietBirdMan
Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2002
- Posts
- 23
Yes he was Aussie.
Pegasus, I make a mea culpa. I didn't know it was a CX hotel. However, have heard from friends at cathay the nuts were not thrown AT the CEO, they were just thrown in the air and some landed near him. Aussies having a good time.
PS- Richard Branson seized on the publicity opportunity and took the fired Captain on at Virgin! (Where peanut throwing is encouraged)
PPS- A southwest F/A hit me in the head with a bag of peanuts once...should she be fired???/ ;-)
Pegasus, I make a mea culpa. I didn't know it was a CX hotel. However, have heard from friends at cathay the nuts were not thrown AT the CEO, they were just thrown in the air and some landed near him. Aussies having a good time.
PS- Richard Branson seized on the publicity opportunity and took the fired Captain on at Virgin! (Where peanut throwing is encouraged)
PPS- A southwest F/A hit me in the head with a bag of peanuts once...should she be fired???/ ;-)
pegasus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2002
- Posts
- 155
A what?
A mea culpa?
I knew I should have studied Yugoslavian at comprehensive!
Well, I ended up at that bar once, and a freighter Captain who was there that particular night informed me that the peanuts were definitely aimed (in a loft attack style) at the CEO. It was his opinion (and he had no grudge to bear as a nuetral observer) that the Captain got what was coming to him in light of the antics of that aforementioned officer.
Just trying to level the playing field.
A mea culpa?
I knew I should have studied Yugoslavian at comprehensive!
Well, I ended up at that bar once, and a freighter Captain who was there that particular night informed me that the peanuts were definitely aimed (in a loft attack style) at the CEO. It was his opinion (and he had no grudge to bear as a nuetral observer) that the Captain got what was coming to him in light of the antics of that aforementioned officer.
Just trying to level the playing field.
MyRadarIsOut
Truth Seeker
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2002
- Posts
- 20
Beer bottle? Hmmm... reminds me of an incident involving one of the managers from Cathay and a CX First Officer. The FO was on the receiving end, and surprise, surprise, nothing happened to the manager. It happened near the 7-11 in Discovery Bay.
P.S. I would take anything a CX Cargo guy said with a grain of salt. There has been bad blood between the cargo side and the pax side ever since they split the freighters off and hired cheaper pilots off the street to fly them.
P.S. I would take anything a CX Cargo guy said with a grain of salt. There has been bad blood between the cargo side and the pax side ever since they split the freighters off and hired cheaper pilots off the street to fly them.
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