Ship 703... gone

[~~~^~~~]

It is irrelevant to this thread and I'm sorry for bringing it up, but in their writings the LDS authors are very harsh on non-LDS folks. In searching for a justification for SkyWest taking ASA's aircraft when it increases SkyWest's costs I reached out and grabbed a straw.

SkyWest has a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, including you and me. We have a right to know why SkyWest is deliberately incurring greater costs to fly CRJ900's through ATL with SkyWest pilots at the controls. In fact, someone might just ask that question at the next conference call.

And desperate... ok... I'm a 7 year Captain on reserve on the smallest equipment operated at ASA who is 14 airplanes away from being displaced to FO. You know what they say...

"Don't criticize someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes. That way when you pi$$ them off you will be a mile away and you will have their shoes."

 

[Eric]

It is my understanding that SkyWest will fly the 900s through ATL at a higher cost because the ASA contract lacks a 90 seat payrate. SkyWest may operate them at a higher cost, but they are still profitable and increase INC's bottom line. I'd rather make a little more money by flying them at increased cost vs. losing the flying all together and have the balance sheet stay the same.

Get the contract done! I know this is easier said than done. I hold both the company and ALPA accountable. ASA wasn't making much ground on the contract prior to the SKW purchase, then things sped up a little, and now, a dead halt with no light in sight.

A wise man once said, a fair deal involves both parties feeling like they were screwed.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

It is my understanding that SkyWest will fly the 900s through ATL at a higher cost because the ASA contract lacks a 90 seat payrate. SkyWest may operate them at a higher cost, but they are still profitable and increase INC's bottom line. I'd rather make a little more money by flying them at increased cost vs. losing the flying all together and have the balance sheet stay the same.

Get the contract done! I know this is easier said than done. I hold both the company and ALPA accountable. ASA wasn't making much ground on the contract prior to the SKW purchase, then things sped up a little, and now, a dead halt with no light in sight.

A wise man once said, a fair deal involves both parties feeling like they were screwed.

Your understanding is dismal at best. The planes have 70 seats and will go up to 76 seats soon. ASA has a 70-79 seat payscale.

 

[Eric]

So Tool Crib, shed some sunshine on my dismal day. Why do you think SkyWest is getting the 900's?

 

[Eric]

More than just the payrate, the union and contract kept you from getting the planes. Pay is only one small piece of the puzzle. EVERYTHING about the 900 would have to have been negotiated, and that would have taken too long. SkyWest, no contract, easy solution.

I bet ASA gets the 900s back once the contract is settled. Jerry is going to do what make the most dollars and cents (sense - I kill myself

 

[DrewBlows]

Uhhh...I think you may have a reading comprehension problem Eric. TOOL CRIB just told you that ASA has a pay rate for the -900. Since it has the exact same systems as the -700, they have pilots who could fly it (just as Skywest does). What else would they need to negotiate for? The big or the little Biscoffs?

 

[Terrain Terrain]

THEY ARE BITTER BECAUSE THE SKYW PILOTS ARE WILLING TO FOCK EVERY ONE WITH THOSE FOCKED UP RATES. THEY ARE GETTING ASA PLANES BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAP LAB OR.
I BET THEY BELIEVE DELTA PAYS SKYW THE SAME TO OPERATE 70 AND 50 SEAT AIRCRAFT.

THEY ARE RIGHT UP THERE WITH MESA. SCREWING EVERY ONE INCLUDING THEMSELVES. WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS. THEY ARE A BIG REASON WE ARE HAVING TO FIGHT SO HARD FOR A DECENT CONTRACT. WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS. OH, I ALREADY SAID THAT

talk to your rep.

 

[ReportCanoa]

talk to your rep.

What is that going to do?

 

[Ben Dover]

Cracking me up

Many of you guys crack me up! You're pissed because SkyWest bought you and is now making decisions that serve them best? What do you expect in a market based economy? Oh, wait maybe you skipped class that day. Market forces dictate these types of decisions and individuals pay the price. YES, INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOU AND ME AND YES IT SUCKS!

Hey, I have an idea what we need is MORE protectionism so evil companies like SkyWest can't come in here and hurt people like you and me. Or I have an even better idea. As pilots, lets insist on an elitist system of compensation and seniority. One which makes it virtually impossible to switch jobs to a better company without taking a massive cut in pay and quality of life. That way we'll have job security for our entire career, uhh as long as that company stays in business. Wait? You mean airlines go out of business?

rant over

 

[Smacktard]

A little birdie told me that ship 703 was transferred to the other side. Unfortunately this required cancellation of several scheduled flights because ASA did not have any spare aircraft to accomplish the flights scheduled for 703.

I guess union busting is more important to SGU than operating flights and getting passengers where they need to be. Bravo, guys.

SkyWest pilots, enjoy another slightly used aircraft and the 10 pilot positions that come with it!

Well, I got to sleep in and an LOA 27 voucher! Doh...

 

[AMANSWORLD]

A little birdie told me that ship 703 was transferred to the other side. Unfortunately this required cancellation of several scheduled flights because ASA did not have any spare aircraft to accomplish the flights scheduled for 703.

I guess union busting is more important to SGU than operating flights and getting passengers where they need to be. Bravo, guys.

SkyWest pilots, enjoy another slightly used aircraft and the 10 pilot positions that come with it!

Give them all the planes they want in the end they are still flying airplanes at sub-standard wages, continuing to lower the bar as we all say and being for the most part unwilling to help their fellow pilots. All I have heard is that Skywest pilots are good guys and what a great company they are. Well if corporate america is who you salute and cater to well then great. If you have have a backbone and want to be paid what you are worth then stand your ground. Personally, the longer I see what Skywest management is continuing to do I think anyone who continues to follow its lead under the given circumstances I really do not want to be associated with and I believe I speak for myself and my peers at ASA by saying we WILL stand our ground until we get what we want and that is a fair contract. We WILL walk if need be and shut this place down, with regret maybe for awhile but when all is said and done and the guys and gals at ASA continue to make the same money they are making currently and being able to be home and have a NORMAL life in the end it will be worth it. F!@K Skywest! I have more respect for Mesa. And that is no BS!

 

[737 Pylt]

Bu!!sh!t...you made your decision based on who offered you the job first and which was more convenient.....just like the rest of us. But I do agree, you take your chances and its a crap shoot.

Holy santa maria batman.....You and I agree on 2 things now! '
Good God man, the world is coming to an end!

737

 

[Bako Cap]

Bu!!sh!t...you made your decision based on who offered you the job first and which was more convenient.....just like the rest of us. But I do agree, you take your chances and its a crap shoot.

I guess your kinda right. When I was hired, SkyWest didn't pay me a dime during training. Too bad that was cheaper than PAYING $10000 for a job at ASA or Comair. That made SkyWest a much more convenient decision.

 

[asapilot]

Uh...you know we have Mormons at ASA too right? This has zero to do with religion, it's just an easy target because Skywest is based in Utah. I don't come to work and say "What would Joseph Smith do?" I'm pretty sure Jerry doesn't either. This is strictly business and we're going to get bent over, regardless of what anyone thinks is morally "right".

 

[ohplease!]

Holy santa maria batman.....You and I agree on 2 things now! '
Good God man, the world is coming to an end!

737

Life may never be the same :beer:

 

[John Pennekamp]

I know, Jerry loves his kids. He will take care of you all. But Jerry adopted a red-headed kid too, one that had been abused and is very troubled. How does his treatment of the step-child reflect on his parenting? Maybe its just 'cus we're not his "real" children, blood is thicker than water and all that. But if I was at SkyWest, watching Inc's relations with their newly acquired pilot group, I'd be wondering about my own future. I know, I know- quick upgrade and some PIC and Im off to greener pastures, so who cares? Maybe you'll be just that lucky, or not......

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

That's an excellent point. Y'all over on the SKW side ought to be watching this closely, because Jerry is showing his true colors. It's ASA today and Skywest next year after the Jackson 5 get elected and we cave. Your destruction will not take four years without a union to fight for you.

PREPARE YOURSELVES. YOU ARE NEXT, AND YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Uhhh...I think you may have a reading comprehension problem Eric. TOOL CRIB just told you that ASA has a pay rate for the -900. Since it has the exact same systems as the -700, they have pilots who could fly it (just as Skywest does). What else would they need to negotiate for? The big or the little Biscoffs?

That is incorrect. ASA does NOT have a -900 payrate. We DO have a -700 payrate. Our pay rates are currently airframe based, not seat range.

I'm told this has been addressed in negotiations to switch to a seat range pay rate, but obviously is still subject to negotiations.

Regardless, we currently have no -900 rate and no agreement to fly -900s for -700 rates.

 

[John Pennekamp]

How would I even be aware that they are Mormons, had they not made a point of letting us know? Anyway, I have nothing against Mormons in general, but a few specific Mormons seem to be holding to the tenets of their faith which teaches that folks like me are "ignorant, an abomination, corrupt, of the devil, who will recieve dangation." *

If the dangation was being bought by SkyWest, then I guess prophesy is being fulfilled. Is this the justification for taking ASA's airplanes when SkyWest management admits to their shareholders that expenses are increased by the re-allocation of ASA's airplanes to SkyWest? If business is business, how do you explain decisions which increase costs while providing no tangible benefit?

* Sources: _(Joseph Smith—History 1:19), (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116), (Journal of Discourses, John Taylor [3rd Mormon President], 13:225), (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84), (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60), (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).

RJ's are built by French Canadians and the engines are built by General Electric and everyone knows that folks who live in Ohio drink beer. My goodness, what will we do?

Careful, fins. You keep talking like that and the "Mormon Mafia" is gonna get you.

 

[MELIT]

That's an excellent point. Y'all over on the SKW side ought to be watching this closely, because Jerry is showing his true colors. It's ASA today and Skywest next year after the Jackson 5 get elected and we cave. Your destruction will not take four years without a union to fight for you.

PREPARE YOURSELVES. YOU ARE NEXT, AND YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION.

Who's drinking the cheap vodka now? Your destruction is taking four years with your union. How's that working out?

 

[John Pennekamp]

This message is hidden because MELIT is on your ignore list.

Huh???

 

[www.]

1. It is my understanding that SkyWest will fly the 900s through ATL at a higher cost because the ASA contract lacks a 90 seat payrate.

2. ASA wasn't making much ground on the contract prior to the SKW purchase, then things sped up a little, and now, a dead halt with no light in sight.

1. JA changed the rules at Skywest Airlines, not a suprise, a while back and went from seat range to airframe didn't he. He also closed SLC saying it wasn't cost effective to have a small base for ASA. He also said that ASA costs are more to operate the 700 than SKYW but that ASA costs are less to operate the CRJ. ASA has a clause that the parties will meet 60 days prior to the in service date of a new aircraft to negotiate rates, 30 days prior if no rate is a agreed to it goes to binding arbitration. Your point about ASA rates is mute. So why would he have SKYW fly the 900s and not ASA? So JA talks out both sides of his mouth? It's all a game.

2. The reason was that DAL told Skip B to slow the process down and drag it out. During this time, a year or so before DFW closed, DAL approached SKYW to see if they were interested in ASA.

 

[www.]

That is incorrect. ASA does NOT have a -900 payrate. We DO have a -700 payrate. Our pay rates are currently airframe based, not seat range.

I don't know what contract you are reading. ASA is seat range. Definitions has aircraft types. Section 3.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don't know what contract you are reading. ASA is seat range. Definitions has aircraft types. Section 3.

Doh! I need a rectal craniotomy.

 

[Tarzan]

The 700'd do not cost more to operate due to labor costs. SKW received erroneous numbers about this. The 700 cost had also absorbed the training costs while the 200 had taken none. Sorta makes the numbers look lopsided when you staple an assumed cost to one airframe and not the other. If just this one peice of info has come to light, what else will happen in future?

 

[Palerider957]

Quick note to ASA pilots:
1. SKYW doesn't care about passengers. SKYW doesn't sell tickets.
2. All the union types that said it would be impossible to replace 1700 pilots... whoops as it turns out we are easily replaced... takes a little time but is very easy.
3. Just to prepare you. SKYW will take all the 70's and open an ATL base. You can now not looked shocked when it happens.
4. To the idiots in the strike center: What are you guys doing. You really think we are going on strike?
5. To the crowd that thinks you have a chance. Understand that somehow pilots are leaving ASA by the hundreds yet we are running new hire classes in the tens... The balance will be made up by a quicker transfer schedule.

We are finished

Absolutely correct. Let me add to this list.

6. All of this is not the fault of SKYW pilots

7. Scope in any form is a failure, and doesn't really exist. The ASA 700's are gone for good.

8. ASA pilots need to fend for themselves, individually. Update your resume, burn some sick time, and find another job. ASA mgmt. will throw you away like an empty beer can, accept this and make some serious life decisions with your family.

Good luck to all of the ASA drivers, it was my pleasure to share the cockpit with many of you.

 

[Tomct]

:angryfirePale, it's not ALL "doom and gloom!" We still hold the power in ATL. Niether company (Dal or Skywst) would survive a walkout by the ASA pilots. CNC and MEC will be meeting with the arbitrator this week. We will see what happens. We are trained to THINK under pressure, don't let these mgmnt Jack@sses get to you! We will be fine. Yes, I have my stuff updated, but I will STAND and FIGHT all the while I am HERE!!!!
ASA Pilots.....STAND UNITED, WE WILL BREAK MGMNT!!!!!!

 

[Arrow11]

:angryfirePale, it's not ALL "doom and gloom!" We still hold the power in ATL. Niether company (Dal or Skywst) would survive a walkout by the ASA pilots. CNC and MEC will be meeting with the arbitrator this week. We will see what happens. We are trained to THINK under pressure, don't let these mgmnt Jack@sses get to you! We will be fine. Yes, I have my stuff updated, but I will STAND and FIGHT all the while I am HERE!!!!
ASA Pilots.....STAND UNITED, WE WILL BREAK MGMNT!!!!!!

OK, no flame bait here. Would you be so kind as to elaborate on how you will break management, i.e what specifics in the contract will you need to get for you to consider management broken?

IMHO, the majority of ASA pilots are rational and realistic and will accept a reasonable contract when it is offerred. Faced with the alternative, what else could they do? Unfortunately, this is the state of the industry in the current business and political climate, I really don't think ASA Pilots will strike, just my opinion.

 

[Ben Dover]

Niether company (Dal or Skywst) would survive a walkout by the ASA pilots.

I hear this alot. "Such and such a company wouldn't be able to survive without us." Anybody have any historical fact on the issue. Precidents? Who has gone out of business because a feeder airline walked? Just curious if there is any historical precident on the issue...

 

[Arrow11]

I hear this alot. "Such and such a company wouldn't be able to survive without us." Anybody have any historical fact on the issue. Precidents? Who has gone out of business because a feeder airline walked? Just curious if there is any historical precident on the issue...

I guess Comair, but I don't know enough about the specifics, DL seemed to carry on ok at the time.

You would think that both sets of management (DL+SKYW) would have been forward thinking enough during the sale of ASA with it's ongoing labor issues to have sufficient contingencies in the event of a strike, whether transferring airplanes and flying to another DCA carrier during a strike is struck work I'll leave others to debate, I seem to recall this is what happened during Comair's walkout. Also, you would have to assume that they know how far to set the bar with a contract proposal to ensure a majority vote for it without giving away the house.

 

[ohplease!]

I hear this alot. "Such and such a company wouldn't be able to survive without us." Anybody have any historical fact on the issue. Precidents? Who has gone out of business because a feeder airline walked? Just curious if there is any historical precident on the issue...

I hate to sort of agree with someone like TOMCT BUT, at a time when Delta is trying to exit BK and the state of the industry the way it is, and with as much lift as ASA provides for Delta, it would be pretty devastating to Delta to have ASA shut down.

That being said, the NMB, Delta, ASA and SkyW will not let that happen. A more likely scenario would be; Delta and SkyW continue to redirect future planes and routes to SkyW while SkyW hires as quickly as possible to have sufficient crews to pick up the extra capacity in the event things cannot be settled between ASA and its pilots. If enough time passes without an agreement, ASA will eventually wither away to insignificance.