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Sheble's or All ATP's for ATP rating?

AZaviator

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Howdy folks. I am considering getting my ATP rating in a few months at either Sheble's or All ATP's and am interested in hearing from anyone who has any fairly recent experiences (good or bad) in doing their ATP ratings at either place.

Thanks in advance for any responses.
 

LearLove

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allatp

I used allatp about 4 years ago. I did my written before I showed up and paid cash for the discount. somewhere around $950. Day one was airwork and approaches in the early afternoon and brush up (approaches) in the evening. About 3 hours total. Next day showedand took test which was exactly like their gouge for that examiner. Kind of in and out.
 

avbug

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Sheble's is a certificate mill, period. You'll get your certificate, and that's about it. If you don't care about doing any flying, getting any instruction, and just want to pay for a certificate, that's the place to go.

Otherwise, ALL ATP's probably concentrates more on getting you up to speed and preparing you for the test.

I've known a lot of folks who went through Sheble's. All had the same experience. Show up one morning, go fly with the examiner, who also acts as the instructor. Five minute oral, gouge given the day before on paper...virtually impossible to fail the ride. A couple hours of flying later and twelve to fifteen hudred bucks (whatever they're charging today), and you have your ATP. FAA mandated extortion.
 

list2002

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All ATPS has a 2 and 4 day ATP course, depending on how comfortable you feel in light twins and instrument flying. The 2 day is $895 and the 4 day $1395 (you get ~ 5 more hours flying than the 2 day). Either way, they are thorough there make it no problem to pass.
 

bobbysamd

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Sheble's

I went there for my ATP in 1989 when he was still in Blythe, California. I actually prepared quite a bit beforehand. I flew the approaches in the sim many times for a good several weeks - maybe 10 hours' worth. I had a friend who went there a few months before for his multi (all 3-5 hours worth), so I had the Duchess gouge already.

My experience wasn't exactly how Avbug described. I showed up on a Sunday afternoon and did a sim with an instructor. The next morning I flew 1.2 with the instructor. I remember that I had my five-minute oral, demonstrated an NDB approach in the sim, and flew my 1.2 in the airplane with the examiner. I was out in less than 24 hours. I left happy.

I feel it helped that I prepared extensively beforehand. I had only about 52 hours of multi, and 3 hours of instrument in the airplane. People who are instrument current and/or who fly 135 should have no trouble whatsoever. The ATP ride is really the same as a 135 ride.

Good luck with your choice.
 
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sstearns2

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are you sure you need an ATP?

Hello,

As Avbug said FAA mandated extortion. I would not bother spending the $1000+ on the ATP unless you really need it. I can't imagine it makes a significant difference to the airlines as you will get it as part of your upgrade training regardless and at no extra effort on anyones part aside from checking off another box on your airman application for the type rating.

I think it's past time for the FAA to pair down the number of useless and expensive ratings we're forced to get.

Scott
 

bobbysamd

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Commuter credentials

I appreciate sstearn's comments, but sometimes you need to finish your ATP for many reasons, not the least of which is to be competitive for that airline job.

For example, several years ago, most commuters wanted at least 1500 total and 500 of multi, and a passed ATP written. Those who were hired generally had their ATP certificate in hand. Then, the commuters wanted the same mins and the actual certificate. They were attracting better applicants, probably due to the perrenial pilot oversupply, and could demand that requirement. Moreover, those who were hired had far more than the published minimums AND the certificate.

Another, less popular, example is hiring on with the FAA as an ASI. The requirements were similar; 1500 total and 500 of multi. I don't recall at the moment if you had to have the ATP, but you can bet the ranch that those who did were higher on the register than those who didn't.

I think that many of these apparently useless ratings aren't really the FAA's doing but the International Civil Aviation Organization, of which the U.S. is a member and a signatory, and many of them are well-ingrained.

As a practical matter, you need to present the best credentials possible, which you do by offering an ATP.

Just my .02.
 
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qwerty

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Sheble's is all about getting you done. That is why you go there. No B.S.n around. They do what they say and they say what they do. For that I think they are offer a great value in training, even though your training is just to get you through a check ride.
 

AZaviator

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To answer SStearns2's question; Bobbysamd pretty much summed it up. I know the ATP isn't a rating I'm required to have just yet, but I want to be as competative as possible. I know I can get it free when I upgrade at an airline, but being that I'm not employed by an airline and given the current job market, I don't see that happening anytime soon. The flight instructing job is getting a little repetative and I think the ATP rating would be a nice challenge and something I could put all those dual instruction given hours toward. I'll end up with an ATP rating and will hopefully be, or atleast appear to be more competative. I think if an interviewer were trying to decide between two applicants who had similar flying backgrounds and flight times, the one with the ATP rating would stand out and woul be the one chosen.

Anyone else have any ATP checkride experiences with Sheble's or All ATP's? Thanks for all the responses so far.
 

avbug

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I didn't say the ATP certificate is extortion, or wrong. The ATP is a valid certificate, although with regulatory changes much of it's meaning has vanished over the past few years.

My reference to regulatory extortion was regulation which has created places such as Sheble's. There is no significant training, no proficiency, no knowledge passed on. Pay the money, get the certificate. It would be difficult if not almost impossible to blow the ride there. What that means is that the FAA has created a nitche for someone to take fifteen hundred bucks to give you a certificate that by all rights ought to be hard earned.

Much like the medical certificate. We could have a real exam; determine potential health problems, etc. I'm not against the exam I get now; it gets me through, and is a cursory exam to see that I meet the certificate requirements of Part 67. However, by establishing designated medical examiners who can charge what they do for what they give, the reality is that it often boils down to FAA sanctioned extortion. In many cases, by paying for the office visit, I've paid for the medical certificate and I get it. The FAA has created the market and we are all beholden to it.

The Knowledge test is the same thing. The requirement was established, and formerly one could go to a FSDO or GADO and take the test for no cost. One could always pay a DE to sit and take the test...again amounting to extortion (why couldn't anyone give the test, instead of a few select examiners who get the ridiculous fees for performing a government service?). Then on to computerized testing centers, and now folks have no choice but to pay the few authorized centers the ridiculous prices they charge to take the tests...tests that on their own have become jokes with answer books widely published before hand...FAA mandated, authorized, and approved extortion.

Don't even get me started on the whole designated examiner system. By setting up a few select individuals who can charge ridiculous fees such that someone can have the privilege to see if their skills are up to par, the FAA has made free enterprise of a government function, and then taken the freedom by parceling the privilege for examiner status to a select few. Accordingly, there is no competition, no fairness in price, and it is tantamount to racketeering.

Programs like the ones being discussed are nothing more than operations which pander to this artificial nitche; it's not about training pilots and preparing someone for an important rating to recognize them for their experience, talent, and ability. It's about taking fifteen hundred dollars, usually from someone earning just enough to feet a rat, and selling them an hour in a beat up junk airplane and then giving them a certificate for which the government doesn't charge a cent. Something is very wrong about that.
 

bobbysamd

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More ATP ideas

You might also consider just getting a twin, maybe at your school, and an MEI bud that you respect, and working with that person to bone up for the ride. Do it the way you'd train your students. Before flying, get the ATP/type rating PTS, get with your colleague in the sim and practice, practice, practice. Take a flight or two in the airplane. Prepare for the oral. And, finally, get with a local examiner who gives ATP rides. You might save some money.

No denying, though, that places like Sheble's or All-ATPs are time-effective for the cost. Tax-deductable, too, I might add.

Good luck with your practical.
 
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