serious color vision question.

[Medicryan]

Ok, so yes I have a color deficiency. I passed the light signal test with no problems. The only problem that I have is a rare problem with seeing VASIs and PAPIs. This only happens once every 20 or so landings and only at certain airports I go to. It only pertains to certain runways because the VASI/PAPI is a different shade than the next one. In a 172 there is no issue because the damn thing is so slow.

Here is my question, should I have any worry about going to the regionals? I know I can just use good CRM and ask the captain and make sure he/she sees that same thing that I do. Also, I know that you back up the approach with the ILS and this will elimanate the problem if every runway you land on has an ILS which is never going to happen. Words of encouragement will be welcomed.

Ryan

 

[Aerosurfer]

i have a waiver for defective color vision...did the lightgun test as a student pilot, since then I never have to look at the magic eye book on medicals. I've never had a problem getting a 1st class (just last week actually) in 8 years. No limitations, no restrictions.

As far as your other problem with seeing papi/vasi, well I would just keep that to yourself. learn to trust your own judgement when this happens, or use vdp and mental math if you need to compute descent rate/glide path. Plenty of runways you will fly into as a 121/135 pilot dont have a vasi/papi.

 

[rickair7777]

A tool captain might complain to the company that you can't see well enough to fly the airplane (if you ask the tool for help).

 

[Fred Rogers]

I reckon you'll be just fine. If you get the SODA / Waiver / whatever letter they are handing out these days, just keep it on the Down Low and compensate the way you probably do with other things. I read a great article by Bud Davisson (sp?) in Plane & Pilot a few years ago about how he was colorblind and as a CFI with thousands of hours he realized the Class D / E surface airpsace on VFR Sectional charts were shown in different colors. I guess he always looked for extra frequencies or something for class D to tell what it was (which is what I mean by compensating).

Anyway, I think there are a LOT more people like you out there than you think. Good luck!

 

[flyboyike]

The only problem that I have is a rare problem with seeing VASIs and PAPIs. This only happens once every 20 or so landings and only at certain airports I go to.

What exactly is the problem, you don't see the lights at all at certain airports or do they all look red or white?

 

[GT501]

Color Tests

Guys, a knowledgable doctor makes all the difference. Every now and then I hear someone who took a light gun test and got a waiver, and it's only because their doctor either doesn't know, or doesn't tell them good info. There are SEVERAL color vision tests that the FAA will accept as normal color vision. Lots of doctors still use the "numbers in circles" like you get in a normal non aviation physical because it is so common and it gets the job done. It actually is one of the more difficult tests. Sure you can go take that light gun test and get a medical with a waiver on it and probably be fine, but why would you want that if you can pass one of the others and not have a waiver? One test my doctor uses is called the "Farnsworth Lantern" test I think and I believe he said that the Navy used the same test. I missed one number in circles out of like nine, so he showed it to me. It's certainly easier than the numbers in circles, (although not as easy as a light gun) but it proves you have perfectly acceptable color vision. You don't have to be able to work in a paint store and match 5,000 different shades of blue/green with your naked eye. There are a lot different levels of color perception, and the numbers in circles is way stricter than what the FAA needs to see. Find a doctor that does only flight physicals and is more knowledgeable about it. There are other tests and I know various doctors use them.

I even googled some info for you....i just copied the first page i saw about it...and by the way, if you already have a waiver, you can pass this test and have the thing removed. A waiver isn't bad, but if you don't need it, who wants it.

www.leftseat.com/falant.htm

 

[captainv]

Sure you can go take that light gun test and get a medical with a waiver on it and probably be fine, but why would you want that if you can pass one of the others and not have a waiver?http://www.leftseat.com/falant.htm

sounds like your case is pretty mild. i could see maybe half the numbers, tried some other test, finally went with the light gun. easy as pie, even though it was noon in MCO and they were shooting the gun at me through those mirrored windows.

sure, why not try another test? but don't sweat it if you have to get the SODA. i was nervous about it when i was interviewing, but the airlines couldn't have cared less...

 

[svcta]

I've got a SODA, too, and only a couple of months ago (after 10 years) did I run in to a PAPI that keeps me really on my toes. Never happened before or anywhere else.

 

[GT501]

Yeah, ditto the CaptainV's post....if your case is bad enough that you can't pass the other tests, don't sweat the waiver. Hope my info at least provides an option...

 

[hoover]

It's a hell of a time to ask this question now, since you have already put all the time, money, and effort to get your ratings. Should have been asking that when you went for your first medical.

That being said, I'm sure they're all sorts of waivers and such out there, and you can probably fly for years without a problem. But consider this: You have this vision problem, because there is a problem with some of the cones in your eye. What if it gets worse? It'd be a bitch to get 15-20 years down the line and be grounded, wouldn't it?

That's one of the reasons I never got into flying. My vision. I was told time and again by many people that I could get a waiver. But my reasoning was, "What if, one day, I can't get a waiver? Then what?"

But to answer your question, since you will be getting paid for your piloting services, then you have a duty to disclose this condition to potential employers. And it that means you can't find a job, then I guess that is your "idiot tax" for not taking this issue seriously when you should have.

 

[Northern Lights]

I've had a SODA for years, and never had a problem. As was mentioned, your piloting skills will compensate for the lack of definition on a PAPI/VASI. If you are concerned, go up with an instructor and practice visual approaches to runways without any vertical guidance.

When I got to the 121 world I relied more on planning than the lights. Figure out what altitude and rate of descent you would like to be at during various parts of an approach.

 

[Murdoughnut]

I have a SODA for color vision and the only problem I seem to have is with the airport beacon. I have a difficult time telling the green from the white. I can tell they are two different colors because the white is brighter than the green, but if someone flashed me just one I would have to guess - which is what I did on my light gun test. Got lucky.

 

[Northern Lights]

When it comes to airport beacons, I am really only concerned with a quick double flash, because then I know it's a military airfield.

I had the sectional problem too. I don't really care if it's magenta or blue, I just look at the other information to find out what I need.

The point is, you learn to compensate for your deficiency

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I have the color vision waiver (SODAs haven't been issued since 2000 for color vision). I too have the occasional problem with a PAPI or VASI, but only in the daytime, and in daylight there are plenty of other cues to tell if you are on glideslope. At night it is fairly easy to tell (for me at least) when they are all red...

One thing I have noticed is on the CRJ the magenta and light blue lines on some of the older CRTs look very similar, but that isn't really a problem. Just be aware that there are some things you'll have to compensate for. Don't talk about it too much until you are off probation, or are upgraded since some people probably would give you a hard time.

By the way, the Farnsworth lantern test is no longer accepted as a substitute for the Ishihara plates that most doctors use (the little book of round spots). I think that was changed last year.

There are other acceptable substitutes, and you should attempt them before you do the light gun test. I was unable to pass the Farnsworth lantern, so I did have to do the light gun test, and passed with no problem.

Good luck

 

[wxman]

I've had the same problem with the PAPI / VASI. However, I found that I can always see it fine when I get close in on the approach... it is just at a distance that it is tough.

As many of the other replies said... you learn to compensate just fine. The CRJ FMS even has the ability to provide a GS to a visual approach (for any runway that doesn't have an ILS). Otherwise, VDP and calculations work well.

I also would agree that I wouldn't say anything to the Captain, just because there may always be some jerk who wants to make a point or cause you a headache. The Captain, if he is any good at all, will keep an eye on your approach anyway, and let you know if something looks too far off.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Fred Rogers]

What if it gets worse? It'd be a bitch to get 15-20 years down the line and be grounded, wouldn't it?

Colorblindness is not something that changes. You are born with it and it stays the same for the duration of your life. Your vision can change but your ability to see color does not. This is why they will issue a waiver for it - FOR LIFE - and you don't have to worry about it ever again.

 

[GravityHater]

and you don't have to worry about it ever again.

The only likely time this (color vision deficiency) might bite you is:

a) you go nordo, you misinterpret a light gun signal and then you tell the FAA that you couldn't see it
b) you have a wreck, and blame your inability to see the visual guidance system.

:both very rare indeed. If there was ever a problem ie in a), I would say I completely missed looking at the tower for a light (even if you did see one), you were 'too busy looking for traffic'.

 

[stearnst]

Count me as another one with a SODA. I have problems discerning the PAPI's/VASI's, although it really only seems to be hard to tell the difference during the daytime, the colors at night are much easier for me to tell apart.

Just for kicks, every time I go in for my medical (a month ago, most recently) I have them do the "color dot" test, just to see how I end up. I think I got like 7 of 21 or something like that, definitely not enough to pass. One time though, at the AME, they had a book that had shapes instead of numbers, I think there was a triangle, square, circle, a wavy line, and two wavy lines. For some reason, I think I got all but two of them...so for what it's worth, that one ended up going much better than any of the tests with the numbers.

 

[Medicryan]

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I know that it is not something that I should be too worried about. I just wanted to get everyone's take on it. I'm sure after a lot more flying, I can fly a perfect 3 degree glideslope without any lights just because I know what the picture should look like.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I know that it is not something that I should be too worried about. I just wanted to get everyone's take on it. I'm sure after a lot more flying, I can fly a perfect 3 degree glideslope without any lights just because I know what the picture should look like.

that's what I'm talking about with compensating. I'm sure you'll be fine. You could mess up a light gun signal but your engine could also explode. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Cheers