Seniority

[no1pilot2000]

When airlines determine which pilots are going to remain on the job and to be furloughed, how does seniority factor into this decision?

 

[semperfido]

When you are a member of a union, seniority is everything. Seniority determines order furlough.

 

[8v8ter]

100%. Seniority is the only consideration on who gets furloughed once the company decides how many need to be reduced. The most junior are furloughed.

 

[Linedriver]

When airlines determine which pilots are going to remain on the job and to be furloughed, how does seniority factor into this decision?

Seniority is the ONLY factor. If an airline decides to furlough 100 pilots, the bottom 100 get furloughed. When they are called back they are called back by seniority as well. The last one to get furloughed will be the first one called back.

 

[Fltlvls]

The worst thing about seniority is not having any!!..And we have all been there or are still there.

 

[semperfido]

The worst thing about seniority is not having any!!

we've all been there

 

[Fltlvls]

we've all been there

You beat me to it. I'm a little slow in my editing

 

[xjcaptain]

last hired.....first fired

 

[no1pilot2000]

About 3 years ago, SWA was hiring ground crews at their BWI location. They held a information session at their HR offices at the airport. About 20 to 30 applicants showed up and applied for various ground positions. The HR rep. said that seniority starts from the first day you are hired. For example, if out of the 30 people that applied, 15 got hired by the company. When all the training is done, that group of 15 would retuen and work at BWI. The oldest person of that group of 15 would have the most seniority of that group. Does any of this make sense, because that is what they explained to the group during the open house.

 

[say again]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

1 being most senior, ie hired first. If layoffs were to happen, 10 would be the first one to go.

 

[Fox-Tree]

So, what you're saying is..... if I get hired last, then I'm first to get furloughed????

I didn't get that from the last 8 redundant posts. Maybe someone else can say the same thing again a different way. Must be a slow Sunday.

 

[Hamfighter]

Slow down, professor.

 

[rigger]

It is as close to SOCIALISM as you will ever get in a free society! Your actions, your work ethic, your ability, your drive, your ambition, your very heart and sole for the given task has no bearing! ALL that matters is the date you were hired......makes total sense after all our society works that way....the best and brightest never get ahead....wait a minute this system is backwards compared to the real "working" world!

Yes I am/was Alpo, Teamsters, etc. Furloughed and brought back and furloughed again somewhere else! If you are a slacker Seniority rules, if you are a go getter it helps you become a slacker!!

 

[semperfido]

It is as close to SOCIALISM as you will ever get in a free society! Your actions, your work ethic, your ability, your drive, your ambition, your very heart and sole for the given task has no bearing! ALL that matters is the date you were hired......makes total sense after all our society works that way....the best and brightest never get ahead....wait a minute this system is backwards compared to the real "working" world!

Yes I am/was Alpo, Teamsters, etc. Furloughed and brought back and furloughed again somewhere else! If you are a slacker Seniority rules, if you are a go getter it helps you become a slacker!!

Seems to work well if you are a widget that is moving a machine from A to B, and are 1 of thousands. The contract keeps the slackers in line.

 

[say again]

So, what you're saying is..... if I get hired last, then I'm first to get furloughed????

I didn't get that from the last 8 redundant posts. Maybe someone else can say the same thing again a different way. Must be a slow Sunday.

And your purpose for this useless post is?? You added to the "8" redundant posts, though 8 isnt quite right.

 

[jbDC9]

It is as close to SOCIALISM as you will ever get in a free society! Your actions, your work ethic, your ability, your drive, your ambition, your very heart and soul for the given task has no bearing! ALL that matters is the date you were hired......makes total sense after all our society works that way....the best and brightest never get ahead....wait a minute this system is backwards compared to the real "working" world!

Yes I am/was Alpo, Teamsters, etc. Furloughed and brought back and furloughed again somewhere else! If you are a slacker Seniority rules, if you are a go getter it helps you become a slacker!!

Are you sure you're a pilot? You don't get the concept of seniority? I get what you're saying about slackers being protected, but by what other method would you have us "ranked"? We don't produce widgets, we don't sell widgets, we don't have sales quotas or production targets that the "real" working world has. There are thousands of us and we do the same job. We do it to the same standard. So you're the "best and brightest", but why should you be ahead of a guy who might be a slacker but can fly an airplane as well as or even better than you? It's what we do, fly airplanes. Are you gonna start pushing all the wheelchair pax up the jetway and hustling downstairs to help throw bags to score brownie points with the chief pilot?

If we used a merit based system as you might prefer, our whole ranking or rostering system would become nothing but a bunch of ass kissers and backstabbers.

But, since you mentioned it, what would be your preferred method of stacking up a pilot list?

 

[Motive Flow]

If we used a merit based system as you might prefer, our whole ranking or rostering system would become nothing but a bunch of ass kissers and backstabbers.

But, since you mentioned it, what would be your preferred method of stacking up a pilot list?

Or, worse, pilots who cut corners with safety in order to be the Chief Pilot's friend.

I know ALPA is far from perfect, but this is the reason why ALPA was created. We are our own worst enemies.

 

[Kalifornia]

Or, worse, pilots who cut corners with safety in order to be the Chief Pilot's friend.

I know ALPA is far from perfect, but this is the reason why ALPA was created. We are our own worst enemies.

Agreed. On it's foundation, no matter how imperfect, the seniority system is the best option. The only continued problem I see with it at the airlines level is the quality in life at the bottom besides Southwest and a couple others tends to be significantly less than anyone somewhat senior. The not just matter of speech poverty wages at the "regional" level, reserves expected to sit at the airport for 8 or whatever hours for indefinite days, etc. plus UPS, Continental, etc. starting out at 30 grand a year is still nonsense. Especially considering how many carriers have furloughed or ceased to exist forcing many to to restart the clock with non-professional benefits.

 

[rigger]

Are you sure you're a pilot? You don't get the concept of seniority? I get what you're saying about slackers being protected, but by what other method would you have us "ranked"? We don't produce widgets, we don't sell widgets, we don't have sales quotas or production targets that the "real" working world has. There are thousands of us and we do the same job. We do it to the same standard. So you're the "best and brightest", but why should you be ahead of a guy who might be a slacker but can fly an airplane as well as or even better than you? It's what we do, fly airplanes. Are you gonna start pushing all the wheelchair pax up the jetway and hustling downstairs to help throw bags to score brownie points with the chief pilot?

If we used a merit based system as you might prefer, our whole ranking or rostering system would become nothing but a bunch of ass kissers and backstabbers.

But, since you mentioned it, what would be your preferred method of stacking up a pilot list?

Well fortunately/unfortunately I am/was still could be a pilot (In the middle of furlough number 2) anyway Can't say there is a better way to do it with what we do for a living....I don't like it but it is what it is! We all had to play the game....(I wonder if I would like it less if I was higher up during this last round???? Probably) It all about perspective! I am OK with the Union as long as it DOES SOMETHING!!!! So I agree with everyone on here...I was just trying to call it what it really is (why hide it!). I also have worked in a place where the suck-ups got ahead and that sucked also.....so as typical on FI I am just bitching/moaning and have absolutely no solution.....Waiting on the next cycle......I'll be further up! woo hoo