Seeking wisdom!

[dsee8driver]

I have to admit to learning quite a bit from this board. From the vast experience here I figured I can get some points of wisdom and different opinions.

A few nights ago, going from LRD to TOL with a stop in DFW, we picked up one of our Management Captains. It was my leg to TOL. Weather in DFW was clear and a million, with a clearance to climb straight to 10k with a 40 degree turn to the right on course after departure on 35C. Weather in TOL was crappy, OVC004 2 1/2 BR Wind was not a factor. After getting a crappy turn inside the marker for the ILS to 7, we landed.

The mgmnt Capt said he was impressed with the flying and it was a great job BUT that I failed to look out the window upon departure from DFW and clear the area before making the turn. I agreed and that was the end.

Thinking about it later, I wondered. It's 1 am, I'm flying an airplane equipped with TCAS, why do I need to clear the area at night. I would think I need to concentrate on flying the airplane in such a critical phase of flight. There are 2 other guys in the cockpit that are monitoring and looking.

What do you guys think?

 

[Badger]

clearing

He had to come up with something or the free ride wouldn't have qualified as work. It's just like the CFI that HAS to come up with a bunch of BS after a lesson when the guy did just fine.

If that was it, I'd consider his statement affirmation of your competence. Big Sky + Small airplane + TCAS + night = no prob. I probably wouldn't bother looking either, given there's another guy picking his nose in the R. seat that is.

 

[Counselair]

I wouldn't bust your chops about it but it never hurts, I used to check when I was still flying but I'm kinda paranoid.


Counselair

 

[Eagleflip]

I can see why your butt is a bit chapped. After all, didn't you fly a great leg with not only no FAR violations but in full accordance to company SOP? Why, that ungrateful pin-head!

But, in retrospect, let's just look at his viewpoint. He is a management pilot--they are, in general, great types who don't get to fly very much. When they do, it is normally in an observation capacity. Just as you can see when observing sim rides, those "ten foot eyes" of his are able to pick up on every item of importance (and unimportance) during the flight.

My bet is that like most check airmen or management types, he felt obliged to say something...anything. They just want to interject a little learning on an otherwise normal flight. Was his comment a gratuitous observation or well deserved comment? That's your question.

Well, if you feel justified as to not looking outside, blow it off and keep on trucking. Don't worry about his comments. In all fairness, visual pickups at night do not do much for your situational awareness. Having flown with an air to air radar (with an altitude readout) for many years, I can attest that just because you see lights doesn't mean that you know if the aircraft is going to be a conflict. Altitudes are amazingly difficult to assess at night, so what looks like a conflict may well just be a visual false alarm.

You didn't mention what altitude you were initiating the turn, so I cannot assess just how "critical" the specific moment was.

I can say that TCAS will not always save your life. Just two weeks ago descending into Oakland I--we, that is--ran accross a 172 tooling just below us that didn't display on the fish finder. We passed well within normal warning range on the rascal, so maybe his transponder just wasn't working that day. Either way, it kind of reminded me of the necessity to keep my eyeballs out.

Although it sounds like a petty comment (given the problems with night visual pickups) wouldn't you feel stupid if you came close to another aircraft when you could have just looked out the window and seen the threat?

What's the long and short of it? If the only thing he commented on was your failure to visually clear a turn during a night departure, then you had a great flight. No kidding. Press on and remember to keep learning.

 

[dsee8driver]

Thanks

Thanks for the input guys..

 

[pilotyip]

Ditto Eagleflip

Having been on both sides, you always have to say something, you had a great flight there was not much to say so he picked something, probably just to say something, thank him with a "Thats a great idea, I will do it in the future" and you both go away happy.

 

[cvsfly]

.............
My bet is that like most check airmen or management types, he felt obliged to say something...anything. They just want to interject a little learning on an otherwise normal flight. Was his comment a gratuitous observation or well deserved comment? That's your question..................

I can say that TCAS will not always save your life. Just two weeks ago descending into Oakland I--we, that is--ran accross a 172 tooling just below us that didn't display on the fish finder. We passed well within normal warning range on the rascal, so maybe his transponder just wasn't working that day. Either way, it kind of reminded me of the necessity to keep my eyeballs out.

Although it sounds like a petty comment (given the problems with night visual pickups) wouldn't you feel stupid if you came close to another aircraft when you could have just looked out the window and seen the threat?

What's the long and short of it? If the only thing he commented on was your failure to visually clear a turn during a night departure, then you had a great flight. No kidding. Press on and remember to keep learning.

....... Ditto. Every flight has the opportunity to be a learning experience. You shouldn't feel slighted. Plenty more advice to come probably. Some valuable, some of no worth. But the professional takes it all in and says "thank you". Don't rely solely on technology. TCAS is my favorite tool in the plane. Probably gets my head out of the cockpit more than it used to. I try to learn from other people's mistakes. Remember the LAX accident - major airliner (DC-9/MD-80 ?) landed on top of a commuter (BE-1900 ?) in position and hold? I for one try to keep the habit of always clearing the area when I'm operating around a runway. Final clear- when turning onto final approach and taking active. Crossing runway - clear left & right. Even in a position and hold situation when there is an anticipated wait, I'm at an angle to the centerline so I can see the final behind me.

 

[Jetsnake]

Balls cried the Queen,
Because the King had Two...

 

[ShawnC]

You never know, you could hit Flywithastick and his cub.

But seriously sounds like the guy is being a Monday morning quarter back.