Security at FBOs

[falconpilot]

Just wondering what everyone's opinion is about FBO security... I just got back from a quick trip to DFW and the security there was a joke! I couldn't believe it... No body watching the door, and there was only one person working at the time. ( which happened to be about 3pm) It seems to me that if someone wanted to try to do something it would be very easy. I can't say that any other FBO's do much better. Except for maybe Executive at Las Vegas, they usually keep good watch. But what is eveyone's opinion on this? I know the last thing I think about when I am on a trip is being concerned about the condition of our aircraft while its sitting on the ramp or tucked away where its unseen. But now considering the events of the last few years, and the terrorist alerts, should this be more of a concern? Should the FBO's try to provide more security for corporate operators? As far as watching the aircraft more closely on overnights. This may all sound rediculous..... And chances are that nothing will happen... But who ever would have thought that a hand full of guys could overtake a airplane with a couple of hundred people on board and fly it into a building. Now I'm not saying that something like that could happen on board a corporate aircraft. Im just talking about overall security. Access to the ramp, aircraft, and possibly fuel farms through an FBO etc...... Im not an overly paranoid person or anything.... But after seeing the FBO security at one the largest Intl airports in the country I just started wondering. Let me know what you think...

 

[Khirsah]

Simple. It costs money.

The state/local government isn't going to require it, because they'd have to foot the bill.
The operators based there aren't going to demand it, because they'll have their own locked and (in a lot of cases) alarmed hangars.
Transient GA isn't going to demand it, because they're not going to want to pay overly large landing fees or enormous fuel surcharges.
The FBO for sure isn't going to do it out of the kindness of their hearts, except maybe in a rare few cases.

That leaves transient business aviation and a couple of options.

1) Implement or increase existing parking fees for everybody. GA operators all but abandon the FBO, which is financial suicide except in the really large airports.
2) Implement or increase existing fuel surcharges for everybody. Same outcome.
3) Implement or increase existing parking fees for aircraft over x lbs (probably 12,500). Might have a big effect, might not. I'd assume quite a few beancounters wouldn't be happy and pressure would be applied to go to a different airport/FBO
4) Implement or increase existing fuel surcharges for Jet-A. Read the possible outcome to 3.

Can't speak for every locale, but with gas prices where they are, where I work I'm already seeing the smaller business aviation operators that can get into and out of 4k to 5k foot strips fleeing the big airport for fuel that is in some cases a dollar cheaper not much farther away. I can only imagine what would happen if the bigger airport's FBOs slapped a $.50 surcharge onto the fuel or added an additional $100 to any parking fees to pay for full time security personnel or high tech security systems.

It's a great idea to actually increase the security of aircraft on the ramp, and frankly I'd love to see it happen. But realistically, who is going to foot the bill?

 

[falconpilot]

I will have to say that I see where you are coming from. Everything cost money... I was just surprised to see what I saw today...

 

[Bandit60]

Have you been to Boston? You have to go thru medal detectors and send your bags thru screening. What a joke. I asked the guy what he was going to do if I had a gun or a knife. I told him it was perfectly legal to have one on a private aircraft. He just stood there and didn't know what to say. Finally he said that he would tell the crew. But I am the crew. It just doen't make any sense to me. It is just a dog and pony show.

 

[Khirsah]

Oh and don't get me wrong. There is a certain level of security that it is assumed even the FBO in Bumfsck, Nowhere will provide. Not much, granted, but some. It may be that what you saw was below the level of what a reasonable person would expect.

I just look at some of the TSA's new suggested guidelines for security and I look at my boss (who I will be the first to admit is a genius when it comes to successfully running an FBO and managing an airport) and I have to laugh at the idea that some of their suggestions would be implemented because of sheer cost. To most FBO managers, I think an increased level of security is something that isn't financially viable.

 

[Publishers]

difficult

The fact is that there has to be some reasonable thought given to the priority level that can be achieved and the likelyhood that the specific target is high probability.

Truth is that we cannot keep big airports secure let alone the smaller ones. Even if we could, can we keep all the trains or tractor trailers or etc etc totally secure. As example, at MIA there were a bunch of people from American Airlines arrested for drug smuggling. They had placed packages on aircraft for some time bringing in large amounts of coke. What difference between that and a bomb.

None of the security implemented does very much to really provide security at the general aviation locations. Then again, why worry about them stealing one of the corporate aircraft when they could easily steal a really big one.

As the one writer points out, you cannot prohibit someone from bringing a small cannon through GA security so why have it. I was doing a news story for a local station about our FBO's security cameras and off camera made the comment that between what the local newscaster and I knew, we could have had the Boeing 757 on the ramp flying and few would have stopped us before we hit a local stadium.

We as a GA community need to keep a careful eye and report what looks and fails the sniff test. Human intelligence is about our only real defense.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Dont count on the FBO for security.

If you need more than the normal (lock every access point,use alarms etc) then you better bring or hire your own - just like overseas.

NBAA has a decent security protocol checklist that can give you some guidelines.

 

[johnpeace]

Dont count on the FBO for security.

If you need more than the normal (lock every access point,use alarms etc) then you better bring or hire your own - just like overseas.

Just out of curiosity, do any of you corporate pilots carry guns while flying?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

carry a gun overseas??

good way to wind up in jail for a VERY long time!

why would you need a gun? If you need a gun you shouldn't be going to that destination!

its not the airlines, we know the pax and prefer to keep ALL guns OFF the airplane!!

 

[johnpeace]

Yeah, I just wondered...

carry a gun overseas??

good way to wind up in jail for a VERY long time!

why would you need a gun? If you need a gun you shouldn't be going to that destination!

its not the airlines, we know the pax and prefer to keep ALL guns OFF the airplane!!

 

[FracCapt]

Just out of curiosity, do any of you corporate pilots carry guns while flying?

As it has been stated, carrying a gun is not necessary nor is it advisable in the corporate world. You know the pax. In the case of Fractionals(like I fly for), we don't necessarily know each and every passenger, but we know they paid lots of money and spent a good deal of time getting into the program. If they wanted to hijack an airplane already enroute, they would charter one...no questions asked other than "where, when, and how will you be paying for this?".

200 nailed one of the big problems...local laws. We're not even allowed to take guns on the airplane at places like BOS - even though it is the PIC's decision. I had a situation where we were taking several guys hunting - and the wonderful(*cough cough*) security there at Signature would not allow them to take their hunting rifles through. I told them I, as PIC, would take them, secure them, and be responsible. I was told that I am not allowed to do it either. I told them to call the airport police. Their response was....We don't know what the federal law is, and we don't care, but you cannot take a gun anywhere on the airport in Boston if you're not wearing a badge.. Imagine this problem intensified 10 times, and you have some foreign countries. Even Air Marshals are required to surrender their weapons to the local authorities BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN GET OFF THE AIRPLANE in Europe. They carry a lock box with them. After all the pax are off the plane, the FAM unloads his gun, places it in the case, locks it, and hands it over to the local police - who then take it and secure it. They deliver it back to the FAM when he boards for his next flight. What scares me about this is the fact that you have FAMs loading their weapon and chambering a round on the airplane(of course, no pax on yet). That's the only time they are allowed to chamber a round without having the gun pointed down in a chambering barrel(a big barrel filled with sand in case the round discharges).

The biggest problem with corporate/fractional pilots carrying guns is the fact that there is often nothing separating the pilots from the passenger compartment. Pax are free to come up to the cockpit at almost any time. If somebody wanted your gun, they could come up to "ask a couple questions" or to "see the view"...bash a coffee pot over your head, and have a good chance at getting your gun before you realize what's going on.

 

[Bandit60]

Some of our passengers go hunting and stuff like that. It is not illegal to do that. I dont think I ever mentioned going overseas. Not ever flight goes overseas or out of the country.

 

[Bandit60]

I told them I, as PIC, would take them, secure them, and be responsible. I was told that I am not allowed to do it either. I told them to call the airport police. Their response was....We don't know what the federal law is, and we don't care, but you cannot take a gun anywhere on the airport in Boston if you're not wearing a badge..

The funny part about this is that a passenger in the terminal can take a weapon and check it in the baggage with no problem. I dont think a person with a badge is loading it on the airplane.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Bandit60,

I dont care if you go overseas or not - the question was about PILOTS carrying guns. And, NO , you cant just carry a firearm from state to state onboard your aircraft. And try that trick overseas in Singapore or Japan per say and you may not leave for a LONG time!

we know its not illegal to "hunt and stuff like that" but it may just be a felony to land in another state and have your trusty feel good pistol in your flight bag or even worse, in your jacket.

Im all for guns, just leave them off the plane thanks.