Seat swapping????

[Gulfstream 200]

I wish I could fit in....4-5 beers these days and Im asleep....heck, that was breakfast not TOO many years ago (well..)

 

[FracCapt]

Wait a sec....you said you were in HS in the '90's....that puts us within 4 years of the same age, MAX. I'm just getting started at 4-5 beers! Hmmm...maybe that means I'm trying to act young....no way...I'm....oh, nevermind...I'm going to bed...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

nope...it means you aint got KIDS.





yeah, I can still put on a show every once in a while....but hangovers last days now instead of hours....

lame.

 

[gear_guy]

Like I posted earlier, "it's impossible to convince people to change." I may be wrong on this one, but I get so tired of the old "we've been doin it this way for x years....why change it." Or "If it aint broke don't fix it." I guess you guys have no problem with a guy with 8k hours getting papers, ice, and coffee for 10 years just because of seniority. Of course you would if it were you. But as long as it's somebody else, who cares! If you have any career drive whatsoever you're not gonna sit stagnant for that long. It aint gonna happen these days, because people know there are better opportunities out there. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. But I know quite a few corporate operators who are operating successfully like I have explained. I just wish they would speak up and throw me a life preserver.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

dam. Im confused....

 

[FracCapt]

I guess you guys have no problem with a guy with 8k hours getting papers, ice, and coffee for 10 years just because of seniority. Of course you would if it were you. But as long as it's somebody else, who cares!

Like I said before, all I ever hear this argument from is the low timers such as yourself. Those that DO have 8k hours don't really care whether or not they have to get the papers, ice, and coffee. Where I work, there are two ATP rated and typed guys flying each airplane. One is desinated as PIC, the other is designated for SIC. Those that are not PIC qualified with the company(even though they are typed) are FO's. They are DESIGNATED as First Officers by the company. Either they get the cabin ready for flight, or they get the cockpit ready - I don't really care which....just as long as we, between the two of us, get everything done, I don't care who does what. Sometimes I do a full preflight - sometimes the FO does. Sometimes I set up everything up front and the FO takes care of the back - sometimes it's the other way around. I've flown with guys that make the same arguments as you do...and they always seem to be the low timers....and trust me, it gets really old, really fast listening to it. Check your ego at the door.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

flying as SIC half the time sure is not career stagnation.
Heck, its nice to not have all the responsibilities sometimes, right?
I have not met too many "8000hr+" pilots who mind setting up the cockpit, getting coffee (er..no F/A?)...or whatever it takes to GET THE JOB DONE.

Corp flying has a lot to do with sharing the work..heck if Im all set on my end and a F/A is running around like crazy (not due to her/his own fault) I ask..."Can I help ya?"....If the SIC of the day is swamped, I dont go in back and read the paper...I help him/her in the cockpit...and thankfully this how 90% of the folks I work with operate - this is also why airline guys sometimes have a hard time adapting to corp flying...("Im a Super Stud Pilot, I dont ask for Ice or Coffee, thats YOUR job...talk to my union..")

Are you being used strictly as a SIC? are you being paid as an SIC and you think you should be a PIC and they are holding you back?

If so..well ya...move on to a better job!

 

[gear_guy]

This ego has been checked at the door. If I had an ego I would'nt be at my current place of employment. I have no problem getting ice, coffee, and papers. In fact, I realize it is part of corporate flying. I really enjoy what I do. All I was trying to say is when that is all you do, it gets old. Some day the guy riding right seat will have to upgrade. And when all you remember how to do is get coffee (b/c that's been your responsibility for the last 8 years) it's dificult to get in the zone of being PIC/Capt. Please don't take what I am saying as ego. We have a real problem with ego in this industry, and it disgusts me. I will never be one of those guys. I have learned plenty on how not to be from some of the people I have flown with over the years. I don't have captain-itis either. I have had opportunities to be a captain elsewhere and turned them down. And exactly how much total time does a person need to have an opinion? I think it is wrong for you to render me as opinionless because of my total time. I don't feel the need to explain my qualifications because they don't have anything to do with the issues. Let's discuss the issues without getting personal.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I think its where you work...maybe you fly with 1 or 2 guys who have territorial problems? afraid of young guys taking thier spots?

The only places I have encountered this are 135 bottom feeder gigs where old guys have nowhere else to go and are paranoid of their turf...

just be sure its not YOU. Have you given them any reason NOT to trust you as PIC? 2500tt is not a ton of time either..but whatever...

hope it works out.

 

[gear_guy]

G200-

After hearing your side of the coin, I really do think it's where I work. I am glad to know that things are'nt that way where you work. It sounds like a real team atmosphere. I am glad to know that things get better. I don't want to jump from job to job so I will probably put up with it for longer than most. Our turnover rate is very high. Most guys leave before there contract is even up. The fact that we even have a contract should say something about our environment. Anyways I think we beat this one to death.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

yup....."high turnover" and "contracts" mysteriously go hand in hand...



good luck in your future!

 

[Dep676]

Hey G-200 how did you land that job? If you do not mind me asking. If you are that young you really scored big. You must have started flying in diapers to have that much time be young. No just kidding. You must have really got an early start though. I wish I would have done the samething.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

not really...most airline guys my age have quite a few more hours..

I started at 14 (relative owned a plane) and flew a lot for a few years but flying corp I only get 250-400 hrs/yr. Thats OK though, I like the time off.

No different route than most guys here Im sure...college, CFI, right place right time, friends, etc.

..same old routine....

 

[Dep676]

I see well thanks for the reply. Flying that many hours would suit me just fine also. Time off is always a good thing. Especially when you are on salary. Someday I hope to be in shoes like that.

BTW what is a BBD-700 anyway?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

keep in mind...grass is always greener...although if I had to go back to some of the terrible gigs I had ...I would be out of flying, couldn't do it again..

Good Luck - if you want to stay corp get resumes out there...many large departments are stocked w/ Vietnam era guys getting ready to retire!

BBD-700 is a Global Express..

 

[Dep676]

That's what I am planning. I just got my first type and want to get some time in type also.

That Global has got to be a blast to fly. That thing has great short field capablity doesn't it?

 

[SCT]

Hey G200,
Our company is talking about selling the 604 for a Global. Would you answer a few questions....
Has your Global been pretty reliable? I've read that the early ones (like most new a/c) had some gremlins and parts availiblity. What is your serial #? How does it fly? What's the longest leg you've flown?
Thanks-SCT

It's going to be a great type to have!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

global is a nice ride I guess.

its a "computer a/c"..if ya wanna call it that. It is notorious for weird faults, especially at boot up..but give it a few minutes and it tends to clear itself. I dont believe we have ever missed a flight due to mx..so you can say its reliable!

It flies very nice, simple systems, very comfy - even on 10-13 hour legs. Ground ops need extra heads up as the wings are big..Ground servicing is time consuming. Quick turns are not that due to the lengthy fueling...approx 42,000 lbs takes a good 35 mins.

Yes, it does have very good short field capability (check those wings!)...being based at a 5000' strip is NO problem. It performs exactly like a Lear 24 at very light weights - but thats not too often....how many short legs to you do in a Global..not many

Longest leg I have flown was 13+05.

sorry, cant tell ya the s/n's.

 

[SCT]

Thanx man! We are all crossing our fingers for one.
42,000 lbs that's more then 2X the fuel as a 604.
We have the same computer gremlins on the X. SOP is to reboot it before calling maintanence. Usually solves it.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

you got it!

Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

thats all you need to know!

 

[501261]

Exactly

Like I said before, all I ever hear this argument from is the low timers such as yourself. Those that DO have 8k hours don't really care whether or not they have to get the papers, ice, and coffee. Where I work, there are two ATP rated and typed guys flying each airplane. One is desinated as PIC, the other is designated for SIC. Those that are not PIC qualified with the company(even though they are typed) are FO's. They are DESIGNATED as First Officers by the company. Either they get the cabin ready for flight, or they get the cockpit ready - I don't really care which....just as long as we, between the two of us, get everything done, I don't care who does what. Sometimes I do a full preflight - sometimes the FO does. Sometimes I set up everything up front and the FO takes care of the back - sometimes it's the other way around. I've flown with guys that make the same arguments as you do...and they always seem to be the low timers....and trust me, it gets really old, really fast listening to it. Check your ego at the door.

Hell I run the fricking flight department and I often end up getting the Coffee, Ice, and Papers. I also prefer to sit in the right seat and let someone else do all the "work".




Bottom line is stuff needs to be done, if its not done you'll either find yourself in an enforcement action or out of a job. Sure you can split these duties 10/90 or 50/50, but you'll find that most successful departments will stress "teamwork".


Issues of seat swapping and “who’s” PIC tend not to be a problem with the “better” operators out there. Since their SOP’s clearly define duties and they only hire quality personal. Hopefully with 2 quality persons the hardest decision the PIC has to make is BBQ or Mexican for dinner.

 

[FracCapt]

Hopefully with 2 quality persons the hardest decision the PIC has to make is BBQ or Mexican for dinner.

Let me get this straight.....you're saying....there is actually a PROBLEM deciding?! I didn't think there was even a decision there! Well....I guess it depends on the restaurants....if it's bad BBQ, there is a decision to be made....if it's good stuff....dude, the decision was made by a much higher power!

 

[501261]

Let me get this straight.....you're saying....there is actually a PROBLEM deciding?! I didn't think there was even a decision there! Well....I guess it depends on the restaurants....if it's bad BBQ, there is a decision to be made....if it's good stuff....dude, the decision was made by a much higher power!

Ja, this can be a problem. Once the “PIC” took me to a BBQ joint in PHX, JD HOGGS he swore by it, it was just a mile west of Swift. WELL, apparently it had closed down a few months before and the only “tenants” of the BBQ joint where a couple of homeless folk as “Hoggs” had apparently forgotten to lock the door (it did not smell like mesquite anymore). I was laughing it up “Say what’s the name of the Mexican joint down the street?”