Scope at ual/cal

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

A question... I have heard many folks say, we are getting our routes back, we are fixing scope to get the RJ's over at mainline ? Is this accurate ? I mean, you can't take an airbus to every current RJ route.

So my question is.. Where do you get these RJ'S from that you want on "your" property ? Does CAL/UAL go buy more ? Or do they simply just take them from the Regionals ? Because there are a few regional carriers, that have there own scope clause, which states the pilots go with the planes. PERIOD.

I feel like all of US back pack wearing, ipod listening, "kids in jets" want all the RJ'S gone now, so we can look forward to somewhat better career at a "legacy"

 

[tie1on]

continental leases most of the regional aircraft to its partners

 

[bluefin]

A question... I have heard many folks say, we are getting our routes back, we are fixing scope to get the RJ's over at mainline ? Is this accurate ? I mean, you can't take an airbus to every current RJ route.

So my question is.. Where do you get these RJ'S from that you want on "your" property ? Does CAL/UAL go buy more ? Or do they simply just take them from the Regionals ? Because there are a few regional carriers, that have there own scope clause, which states the pilots go with the planes. PERIOD.

I feel like all of US back pack wearing, ipod listening, "kids in jets" want all the RJ'S gone now, so we can look forward to somewhat better career at a "legacy"

Your pilots are not coming with your planes, furloughed pilots didn't come with the routes given to them...PERIOD! If mainline does aquire your RJ's you all have to get in line behind ALL FURLOUGHED pilots, fill out your application and wait for the phone call, pass, and then come on over! But remember any deals your pilots are on the bottom, and if some get furloughed, too bad, as I was once told by arrogant P%^*$ captain, furloughs build character!!!

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

Um, you can't just take "our" planes, it does not work like that, sure you can have them, but our ALPA contract scope clause clearly states, the planes and the pilots go together. You can take our planes, and I will gladly go to the bottom of your list, as thats where I belong.

 

[titans10]

Contracts can not be broken right. Most companies would say greive it.

 

[Sandhawk]

Your pilots are not coming with your planes, furloughed pilots didn't come with the routes given to them...PERIOD! If mainline does aquire your RJ's you all have to get in line behind ALL FURLOUGHED pilots, fill out your application and wait for the phone call, pass, and then come on over! But remember any deals your pilots are on the bottom, and if some get furloughed, too bad, as I was once told by arrogant P%^*$ captain, furloughs build character!!!

Amen!
:beer:

 

[trip]

Actually SKW took quite a few furloughed UAL with the first 70 seaters, as that was part of the deal UA ALPA set up when they relaxed scope and from what I hear more are welcome to come over.
But lets not let facts get in the way of good RJ bash!

 

[bizicmo]

Um, you can't just take "our" planes, it does not work like that, sure you can have them, but our ALPA contract scope clause clearly states, the planes and the pilots go together. You can take our planes, and I will gladly go to the bottom of your list, as thats where I belong.

The planes that are leased to the regional from the major could just be taken back by not renewing the leases. The other planes that the regionals own and that then don't have any flying will be losing money quickly. I see them wanting to dump those planes quickly if they aren't flying. In comes a third party aircraft leasing company that will buy them. Then the pilots can go to the leasing company, which doesn't fly the planes. Lastly the leasing company sends them to the majors, with no pilots attached. Boy that was hard, I'm not even in management and could come up with that one. Imagine what crazy scheme a management type will come up with.

 

[SLOTH]

"United we stand, divided we fall" comes to mind. It's rather amazing that the bashing continues unabated.

 

[skywdriver]

"United we stand, divided we fall" comes to mind. It's rather amazing that the bashing continues unabated.

While there may be some folks out there that are speaking only out of hostility towards the regional industry, I think most are just speaking realistically about where the industry might be headed. The regional industry could see some very very big changes if our next contract caps scope and then slowly pulls it back down. That is just a fact, and when the facts hurt, so be it. The regional industry for the most part (not all of course) has seen pretty solid movement in the positive direction over the past 8 years. It may be a tough wakeup call for them that they also are not immune to the downside of this industry as a whole. I don't wish anything bad for the pilots of these companies, but if it is the difference between them doing CAL/UAL flying, or CAL and UAL pilots doing that flying, that is a no-brainer.

 

[Flopgut]

I'm in my 40's, have a family (oldest is 15, youngest 9), and a whole lot of bills to pay. I'm ready to strike CAL if I can't get a fair deal. I've got my resume on standby and I know I will have to go look for a job in an incredibly tough environment. That's my reality. I fail to see a downside for current RJ pilots. If my strike/contract fails they will boom. If I and my co-workers succeed they will have job opportunities that are better than what I can expect now by a factor of ten. At the very least; They could probably have their pick of mainline jobs in the not too distant future. What gives RJ guys? Seriously, if I was in an RJ right now, I would relax....

 

[bluefin]

Actually SKW took quite a few furloughed UAL with the first 70 seaters, as that was part of the deal UA ALPA set up when they relaxed scope and from what I hear more are welcome to come over.
But lets not let facts get in the way of good RJ bash!

I understand, but at the bottom(16 bucks an hour at Ho-jet) Skywest (right now)yes right seat of the BRO that aint what I call a fair deal for what was given up! how about to the right seat of an RJ at 3 or 4 year pay or better yet f'ing Captain.

 

[Flopgut]

You know what I would do if I was at a regional? I'd write a resolution supporting Jay Pierce and UAL/CAL at least in kind, if not full commitment, and start signatures. Then, if we win, we'll know exactly who supported us and who we should firstmost support in hiring. If we lose, you're still good guys...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If there is indeed a pilot shortage... management will try and fill it with regional CBAs... pilots will want to work at ML CBAs..

One goal is to inform high school and college students to want to go for ML CBAs....

If the pilot shortage is real... and more applications are at ML than regionals.. it can force change....

 

[bluechunks]

So my question is.. Where do you get these RJ'S from that you want on "your" property ? Does CAL/UAL go buy more ? Or do they simply just take them from the Regionals ? Because there are a few regional carriers, that have there own scope clause, which states the pilots go with the planes. PERIOD.

Not so fast...

Take a good hard look at many of the leases for 70-seat RJ's flown by United Express. (Hint: you can find this information in United's financial reports.)

These aircraft are leased by United and simply operated by the express carrier(s) for UAL. Translation: they already belong to United (and not the regional carrier flying them) and United can do anything it wants with the aircraft within their existing regional contracts...which undoubtedly contain various escape clauses and expiration dates.

Um, you can't just take "our" planes, it does not work like that, sure you can have them, but our ALPA contract scope clause clearly states, the planes and the pilots go together.

And that's the point. They are not all "your" planes. Your scope does not apply as operating contracts expire or are terminated within the conditions of the contract. This is not a merger nor fragmentation.

The 50 seat RJ's are a different matter, and here (IMHO) every major airline is totally fine with leaving the regional carriers holding the bag as the uneconomical fleets are reduced.

 

[IAHERJ]

You see deals being done at the regional level as we speak. Everyone wants to go ahead and line up long term contracts with the new UAL as they see, for the first time in decades, that the mainline pilots have a good chance of limiting large RJ growth and possible doing it in house when contracts expire. I don't see UAL taking 70 seat CRJ's or the ERJ-170's from any regionals anytime soon. I do see an order for the new C-series with delivery dates coinciding with the expiration of 70 seat contracts with current regional partners. These aircraft will most likely be in the 80-100 seat range to be flown by mainline pilots and to replace over a decade the 70 seat jets being flown by regional partners today per the new scope clause in the works over the next few weeks.

 

[nimtz]

Actually SKW took quite a few furloughed UAL with the first 70 seaters, as that was part of the deal UA ALPA set up when they relaxed scope and from what I hear more are welcome to come over.
But lets not let facts get in the way of good RJ bash!

Don't hurt yourself patting your back. Uncle Jerry wasn't exactly beating down UAL's door with the idea. And god forbid if ALPA would of asked for capt seats in those shiny new 700's like AMR.

Skywest also had a pilot group that was more then willing to take 50 seat pay for the 70 seaters. Why? I can't think of a better reason then quick upgrade. 70 Seat override for both seats was on a good trajectory at the time through Air Willy, ASA, and Comair deals. Chautauqua and Skywest effectively derailed that train for years.